I'm not sure if this site is for deciphering meaning in songs or just a forum for anyone's half-baked conception of what a song means to them. These are not conflicting exercises, per se, but if you just want to voice the feeling a song evokes in you, FIND SOMEONE TO TALK TO. Especially if it's a song like this that resonates with you. If you're just going to use a song as a Rorschach Test, then all you can tell from people's interpretations is how THEY are thinking. Which is fine and all, but.... boring... To me exploring the writer's intentions to the extent possible sometimes makes a song come to life in a completely different way.
The only comments I've seen here that illuminate this song to me are those explaining the relationship with Annik and the events surrounding it. He loved two people at the same time: a common state of affairs to be sure, but apparently too much for him to handle. I find it interesting that the song isn't explicitly addressed to Annik or his wife. That makes sense; he's confused. Who does he want to be with? He doesn't know what to do. It's in this vein that I wonder who the last stanza specifically is addressed to. Both women? It is clearly about some aspect of a funeral ceremony. He seems to be saying that this ceremony will be good conclusion for everyone involved. "Watching love grow" and "letting me know" seem to imply this. She/they will understand his love for them and he will "know" which one, "loved him the most." He couldn't pick so he cops out. As everyone should know, taking yourself out of this world is NOT a way to show others how you care about them. It shows just the opposite: how much you care about yourself.
The song is beautiful and haunting, but the scene is a disgusting one. Think Guernica for its era's nihilism. War may be a fact of life, and such realities can be captured beautifully -- as they arguably are here. That doesn't change the fact that "war is hell." So is losing a loved one. (Or even thinking you might lose a loved one). Don't confuse poignant depiction with glorification.
In regards to "which one loved him the most", Ian Curtis's biographies mention that one of the things that was bothering him towards the end was Annik's inability to fully accept his disability, whereas Deborah was the one who would stay up late with him when he felt afraid that he might have a fit and need her help. She writes that what got to her was not the epilepsy but the way that she was estranged from all the interesting things about his life. On that note, I wonder how different things would've been if he had considered that...
In regards to "which one loved him the most", Ian Curtis's biographies mention that one of the things that was bothering him towards the end was Annik's inability to fully accept his disability, whereas Deborah was the one who would stay up late with him when he felt afraid that he might have a fit and need her help. She writes that what got to her was not the epilepsy but the way that she was estranged from all the interesting things about his life. On that note, I wonder how different things would've been if he had considered that maybe others could feel the way he felt, that maybe events were unnerving others, instead of just acknowledging the times they cried. You're write about his confusion though. He noted the conflictions and contradictions between who he wants, who he loves, and who he should objectively love, i.e. who deserves his love.
Also, I've heard that the big thing that he loved about Annik was their mutual lovee and appreciation of art and that refined side of life, how they would go to art galleries together and then go back and hang with the band and talk about sophisticated stuff in front of the others just to be snobs. It seems like this song is about all of Annik's shortcomings. It seems like he wanted Annik to be more like Deborah, or maybe alternatively he would be content with his wife if she were more like Annik. I guess he didn't want...
Also, I've heard that the big thing that he loved about Annik was their mutual lovee and appreciation of art and that refined side of life, how they would go to art galleries together and then go back and hang with the band and talk about sophisticated stuff in front of the others just to be snobs. It seems like this song is about all of Annik's shortcomings. It seems like he wanted Annik to be more like Deborah, or maybe alternatively he would be content with his wife if she were more like Annik. I guess he didn't want his romantic go on this earth to be just another suburban family morning.
I think most people are looking at this all wrong. This is between him and Deb. This has very little to do with Annik. This is Ian basically telling Deb she has nothing to worry about soon, especially financially, as they had often joked about living in "avenues all lined with trees"...and he delivered. In the form of royalty checks. He just wants her to always think of him.
I think most people are looking at this all wrong. This is between him and Deb. This has very little to do with Annik. This is Ian basically telling Deb she has nothing to worry about soon, especially financially, as they had often joked about living in "avenues all lined with trees"...and he delivered. In the form of royalty checks. He just wants her to always think of him.
@FFTW this is funny, because you are very much posting your opinion right here :)
@FFTW this is funny, because you are very much posting your opinion right here :)
I don't know if you've ever thought about this, but art is best when it's not just a window to ANYONE's soul... including the artist. I do indeed find Ian's life and inspirations interesting and it adds emotion to the song, but again that is a very personal experience for you and for me. Even the facts of the song add personal meaning. Just like that, anyone else's interpretations, related experiences, all add something to the depth of the song. A song can have a meaning it didn't intend, and that's what makes it good and is even what musicians often rely on... the universality of what they are conveying
Ian could have written autobiographical lyrics if that's what he intended. He didn't, music is supposed to be open and relatable for it to make any sense and be emotional. Anyway, you wrote this in 2009 so Im guessing you're not 16 anymore so it's all good.
@minuette - Have you ever loved someone who was suicidal? Do you know the look on their face or the touch of their hand as they're being force fed charcoal? Have you broke in to someone's apartment to save them from an overdose, but then had to wait secretly outside for their family to take them to the hospital? Then have them refuse to speak to you for months while they were out sleeping with your friends? Have you ever had your life destroyed by being declared a stalker by the government just for emailing them, trying to make sure...
@minuette - Have you ever loved someone who was suicidal? Do you know the look on their face or the touch of their hand as they're being force fed charcoal? Have you broke in to someone's apartment to save them from an overdose, but then had to wait secretly outside for their family to take them to the hospital? Then have them refuse to speak to you for months while they were out sleeping with your friends? Have you ever had your life destroyed by being declared a stalker by the government just for emailing them, trying to make sure they understood you wouldn't be there to save them again? Have you ever had a lawyer tell you that you stood no chance because you "fit the profile"?
I wrote this comment in an attempt to communicate with that person after I was threatened with being put in jail if I made any contact with them again. They have also commented on this song here. I don't remember or care about the research I put into writing this comment or what this song means to anyone. I would delete it if I could.
Maybe it's just the PTSD, but I no longer care if anyone finds the help they need. I tried to save someone from destroying themselves and got my life destroyed for it instead. The only thing I cared about was that they were ok. No one cared; they thought I was the threat. Thanks for bringing back those memories. Please leave me alone.
@FFTW hey, I'm sorry for what you went through and for reminding you of that. I did feel a bit dumb bringing back an old comment (I didn't even realize i had already commented on it 3 years ago lol). But I did it because I felt like what I had to say was still important.
But anyway, your trauma is not at all what I was trying to argue (and there wasn't a mention of it in your original comment either)... and my point is still my point...
you don't need to debate if you don't like though. peace n salutations...
@FFTW hey, I'm sorry for what you went through and for reminding you of that. I did feel a bit dumb bringing back an old comment (I didn't even realize i had already commented on it 3 years ago lol). But I did it because I felt like what I had to say was still important.
But anyway, your trauma is not at all what I was trying to argue (and there wasn't a mention of it in your original comment either)... and my point is still my point...
you don't need to debate if you don't like though. peace n salutations
I'm not sure if this site is for deciphering meaning in songs or just a forum for anyone's half-baked conception of what a song means to them. These are not conflicting exercises, per se, but if you just want to voice the feeling a song evokes in you, FIND SOMEONE TO TALK TO. Especially if it's a song like this that resonates with you. If you're just going to use a song as a Rorschach Test, then all you can tell from people's interpretations is how THEY are thinking. Which is fine and all, but.... boring... To me exploring the writer's intentions to the extent possible sometimes makes a song come to life in a completely different way.
The only comments I've seen here that illuminate this song to me are those explaining the relationship with Annik and the events surrounding it. He loved two people at the same time: a common state of affairs to be sure, but apparently too much for him to handle. I find it interesting that the song isn't explicitly addressed to Annik or his wife. That makes sense; he's confused. Who does he want to be with? He doesn't know what to do. It's in this vein that I wonder who the last stanza specifically is addressed to. Both women? It is clearly about some aspect of a funeral ceremony. He seems to be saying that this ceremony will be good conclusion for everyone involved. "Watching love grow" and "letting me know" seem to imply this. She/they will understand his love for them and he will "know" which one, "loved him the most." He couldn't pick so he cops out. As everyone should know, taking yourself out of this world is NOT a way to show others how you care about them. It shows just the opposite: how much you care about yourself.
The song is beautiful and haunting, but the scene is a disgusting one. Think Guernica for its era's nihilism. War may be a fact of life, and such realities can be captured beautifully -- as they arguably are here. That doesn't change the fact that "war is hell." So is losing a loved one. (Or even thinking you might lose a loved one). Don't confuse poignant depiction with glorification.
This site is for both interpreting meanings and identifying the purposed meanings to songs. don't be an ass, I find both insightful
This site is for both interpreting meanings and identifying the purposed meanings to songs. don't be an ass, I find both insightful
In regards to "which one loved him the most", Ian Curtis's biographies mention that one of the things that was bothering him towards the end was Annik's inability to fully accept his disability, whereas Deborah was the one who would stay up late with him when he felt afraid that he might have a fit and need her help. She writes that what got to her was not the epilepsy but the way that she was estranged from all the interesting things about his life. On that note, I wonder how different things would've been if he had considered that...
In regards to "which one loved him the most", Ian Curtis's biographies mention that one of the things that was bothering him towards the end was Annik's inability to fully accept his disability, whereas Deborah was the one who would stay up late with him when he felt afraid that he might have a fit and need her help. She writes that what got to her was not the epilepsy but the way that she was estranged from all the interesting things about his life. On that note, I wonder how different things would've been if he had considered that maybe others could feel the way he felt, that maybe events were unnerving others, instead of just acknowledging the times they cried. You're write about his confusion though. He noted the conflictions and contradictions between who he wants, who he loves, and who he should objectively love, i.e. who deserves his love.
Also, I've heard that the big thing that he loved about Annik was their mutual lovee and appreciation of art and that refined side of life, how they would go to art galleries together and then go back and hang with the band and talk about sophisticated stuff in front of the others just to be snobs. It seems like this song is about all of Annik's shortcomings. It seems like he wanted Annik to be more like Deborah, or maybe alternatively he would be content with his wife if she were more like Annik. I guess he didn't want...
Also, I've heard that the big thing that he loved about Annik was their mutual lovee and appreciation of art and that refined side of life, how they would go to art galleries together and then go back and hang with the band and talk about sophisticated stuff in front of the others just to be snobs. It seems like this song is about all of Annik's shortcomings. It seems like he wanted Annik to be more like Deborah, or maybe alternatively he would be content with his wife if she were more like Annik. I guess he didn't want his romantic go on this earth to be just another suburban family morning.
I think most people are looking at this all wrong. This is between him and Deb. This has very little to do with Annik. This is Ian basically telling Deb she has nothing to worry about soon, especially financially, as they had often joked about living in "avenues all lined with trees"...and he delivered. In the form of royalty checks. He just wants her to always think of him.
I think most people are looking at this all wrong. This is between him and Deb. This has very little to do with Annik. This is Ian basically telling Deb she has nothing to worry about soon, especially financially, as they had often joked about living in "avenues all lined with trees"...and he delivered. In the form of royalty checks. He just wants her to always think of him.
@FFTW this is funny, because you are very much posting your opinion right here :)
@FFTW this is funny, because you are very much posting your opinion right here :)
I don't know if you've ever thought about this, but art is best when it's not just a window to ANYONE's soul... including the artist. I do indeed find Ian's life and inspirations interesting and it adds emotion to the song, but again that is a very personal experience for you and for me. Even the facts of the song add personal meaning. Just like that, anyone else's interpretations, related experiences, all add something to the depth of the song. A song can have a meaning it didn't intend, and that's what makes it good and is even what musicians often rely on... the universality of what they are conveying
Ian could have written autobiographical lyrics if that's what he intended. He didn't, music is supposed to be open and relatable for it to make any sense and be emotional. Anyway, you wrote this in 2009 so Im guessing you're not 16 anymore so it's all good.
@minuette - Have you ever loved someone who was suicidal? Do you know the look on their face or the touch of their hand as they're being force fed charcoal? Have you broke in to someone's apartment to save them from an overdose, but then had to wait secretly outside for their family to take them to the hospital? Then have them refuse to speak to you for months while they were out sleeping with your friends? Have you ever had your life destroyed by being declared a stalker by the government just for emailing them, trying to make sure...
@minuette - Have you ever loved someone who was suicidal? Do you know the look on their face or the touch of their hand as they're being force fed charcoal? Have you broke in to someone's apartment to save them from an overdose, but then had to wait secretly outside for their family to take them to the hospital? Then have them refuse to speak to you for months while they were out sleeping with your friends? Have you ever had your life destroyed by being declared a stalker by the government just for emailing them, trying to make sure they understood you wouldn't be there to save them again? Have you ever had a lawyer tell you that you stood no chance because you "fit the profile"?
I wrote this comment in an attempt to communicate with that person after I was threatened with being put in jail if I made any contact with them again. They have also commented on this song here. I don't remember or care about the research I put into writing this comment or what this song means to anyone. I would delete it if I could.
Maybe it's just the PTSD, but I no longer care if anyone finds the help they need. I tried to save someone from destroying themselves and got my life destroyed for it instead. The only thing I cared about was that they were ok. No one cared; they thought I was the threat. Thanks for bringing back those memories. Please leave me alone.
@FFTW hey, I'm sorry for what you went through and for reminding you of that. I did feel a bit dumb bringing back an old comment (I didn't even realize i had already commented on it 3 years ago lol). But I did it because I felt like what I had to say was still important. But anyway, your trauma is not at all what I was trying to argue (and there wasn't a mention of it in your original comment either)... and my point is still my point... you don't need to debate if you don't like though. peace n salutations...
@FFTW hey, I'm sorry for what you went through and for reminding you of that. I did feel a bit dumb bringing back an old comment (I didn't even realize i had already commented on it 3 years ago lol). But I did it because I felt like what I had to say was still important. But anyway, your trauma is not at all what I was trying to argue (and there wasn't a mention of it in your original comment either)... and my point is still my point... you don't need to debate if you don't like though. peace n salutations