Just like schism86 said, i had this post before the site re-vamped... I'm just gonna copy what I wrote before.. It's hella long, so only read it if your REALLY interested.
First off, sorry this is gonna be so long, I'm gonna disect pretty much every line
Well guys, I'm not here to clear anything up on the meaning of this song, cuz I don't know it for sure. I like to think my interpretation is right (some of you are probably closer though), but it's open to everyone's views, and I love reading what all of you think. But anyway, here goes.
I think unlike most songs, Tool is pretty straightforward on this song. It doesn't seem allegorical, but it is quite deep. To be honest, after buying lateralus and hearing this song, it became my life motto. I hate grudges, and I can't stand holding them now. It just seems so childish.
I think Maynard is almost throwing the idea of grudge holding back into the faces of people that do it. He's making fun of them for such a savage thing. Like the first line...
"wear the grudge like a crown of negativity" (go ahead, put your grudge out where everyone can see it, let everyone know that you're mad and that you want to be that way).
"calculate what we will and will not tolerate" (decide exactly what you want to get mad over that would make you hold a grudge. this way when it happens, you can keep putting that crown back on)
"desperate to control all and everything" (you don't want to be on good terms. you WANT the grudge. if you can control the grudge, you can control the person you hold the grudge against.)
"unable to forgive your scarlet letterman" (although they know they've done wrong, you won't forgive them under any circumstance)
"clutch it like a cornerstone, otherwise it all comes down" (clutch the grudge that you hold like a cornerstone, because you know if you don't then the grudge dies. you don't want that)
"justify denials and grip em to the lonesome end" (come up with excuses to continue holding the grudge, and stand by them until the end, even when everyone hates you for what you're doing, hence lonesome)
"Terrified of being wrong, ultimatum prison cell" (you're scared to death that someone can prove that you have no reason to hold a grudge. you worry about it so much you put yourself in your own little prison over it)
[Remember this whole time, I believe Maynard's making fun of the people that do this. Almost reverse psycology by showing them how stupid it is]
Then I have to agree with 'Insecure Dilusions' idea on the Saturn thing. Saturn was god of all greek gods. he was sooo worried he could be overthrown he ate his children. Yet Zeus was the one thing that Saturn overlooked. That one thing overthrew Saturn and killed him. Hang on to the grudge like saturn would, because if you don't you'll be humbled in your ignorance. And later he says "ignorant to the damage done"... ignorance isn't stupidity, it's not knowing about something. in this case, Saturn was ignorant to the damage done to himself until Zeus killed him.
"unable to forgive and we're sinking deeper" (you won't forgive, and for this you're slowly creating a larger grudge)
The grudge begins to define you, confine you, even control you.
Again to the Saturn reference for almost the rest of the song. Saying that Saturn, almost as if, takes over your body. He and you become one, you make the decisions Saturn chose. And not until you end the grudge will he quit tearing you apart.
Finally Maynard quit's criticizing and simply tells them what they need to do.
Give away the (corner)stone. Let the oceans take and transmute this cold and weighted anchor (that was your grudge, holding you down). Give away the stone. Let the waters take and transmute these leaden (heavy burdensome) grudges into gold. LET GO.
And thus ends my entirely too long interpretation. However, this is what I believe and exactly how I feel. This pretty much explains my life motto. I thank each of your for your time in reading such a long and drawn out post. You deserve a pat on the back for putting up with my jabbering.
wow madson i really gotta say u got ur tool straight. i never really knew the lyrics till jsut recently and i had been thinkin about it. i think ur post was really insightful
wow madson i really gotta say u got ur tool straight. i never really knew the lyrics till jsut recently and i had been thinkin about it. i think ur post was really insightful
saturn has meanin within the Kabbalistic Tree of Life. Saturn houses a certain path that can influence one's choice, of letting something go..or keep it.
saturn has meanin within the Kabbalistic Tree of Life. Saturn houses a certain path that can influence one's choice, of letting something go..or keep it.
i agree with most of what you just said except for the saturn part. Saturn was the roman god of justice. So when it talks about saturn, its almost talking about a judge. He will punish you until you let go of the grudge.
i agree with most of what you just said except for the saturn part. Saturn was the roman god of justice. So when it talks about saturn, its almost talking about a judge. He will punish you until you let go of the grudge.
i agree with the song interpretation except for the saturn part... it's completely wrong.. saturn was a roman god not a greek god... and it was cronus the titan who ate all his children and was overthrown by zeus.
i agree with the song interpretation except for the saturn part... it's completely wrong.. saturn was a roman god not a greek god... and it was cronus the titan who ate all his children and was overthrown by zeus.
I would like to add my own thoughts on Saturn. Saturnm in astrology, since ancient times is known as the "greater Malefic", bringing the opposite to all good qualities and polarized against Jupiter. Where there is light, it brings darkness, warmth it brings cold, joy it brings sadness and so on. The song seems to address this negativity.
I would like to add my own thoughts on Saturn. Saturnm in astrology, since ancient times is known as the "greater Malefic", bringing the opposite to all good qualities and polarized against Jupiter. Where there is light, it brings darkness, warmth it brings cold, joy it brings sadness and so on. The song seems to address this negativity.
Looking at your tool’s grudge break down and I wanted to share a different perspective to the part of the song where he says “Saturn ascends, comes round again” part of the song. More than likely that part of the song has to do with Galileo debunking the earth centered concept of the universe.
Looking at your tool’s grudge break down and I wanted to share a different perspective to the part of the song where he says “Saturn ascends, comes round again” part of the song. More than likely that part of the song has to do with Galileo debunking the earth centered concept of the universe.
Saturn is the most notible celestial object that follows a retrograde motion in the night sky. Makes sort of a circle loop shape.
Saturn is the most notible celestial object that follows a retrograde motion in the night sky. Makes sort of a circle loop shape.
This of course proved the fallibility of the church
This of course proved the fallibility of the church
I still don’t know what’s meant by, “choose 1 or 10” though.
I still don’t know what’s meant by, “choose 1 or 10” though.
The line “unable to forgive this scarlet letterman” was a book written in 1850 about a woman who had an affair and is forced to wear the red scarlet letter A around her neck.
@madson4562 Hey! I think your interpretation is spot on. My only speculation is that I personally think this whole thing is directed towards himself, like he is telling himself how ridiculous all of this is, but he still holds this (or these) horrible grudge(s). The reason I think this is because the long (and epic :3) yell at the end of this, sounds like all the anger, anxiety, and desperation built up from this grudge is let out in one long and painful yell. But, I don't know, I think this because when I listen to this song, that's I...
@madson4562 Hey! I think your interpretation is spot on. My only speculation is that I personally think this whole thing is directed towards himself, like he is telling himself how ridiculous all of this is, but he still holds this (or these) horrible grudge(s). The reason I think this is because the long (and epic :3) yell at the end of this, sounds like all the anger, anxiety, and desperation built up from this grudge is let out in one long and painful yell. But, I don't know, I think this because when I listen to this song, that's I how I feel, I listen to this song when I am overwhelmed or when I am hating someone, so I can let it all out and remind myself that the grudge is nothing more but pure stupidity
I think everyone has the meaning probably spot on but I've always loved this song. It means something different to me now as I am a new member of al anon and find it really relates for me to the program. I'm also finally working on changing my whole life specifically feeling my emotions presently and allowing myself to actually feel emotions I've had stuffed inside for a good 20 years. So, I just find when I am down and resisting the necessary changes that I need to make, this song just reminds me it's okay it'll be worth it...
I think everyone has the meaning probably spot on but I've always loved this song. It means something different to me now as I am a new member of al anon and find it really relates for me to the program. I'm also finally working on changing my whole life specifically feeling my emotions presently and allowing myself to actually feel emotions I've had stuffed inside for a good 20 years. So, I just find when I am down and resisting the necessary changes that I need to make, this song just reminds me it's okay it'll be worth it in the end! Just thought I'd share my new perspective... : ) thanks!
@ADeadlierSnake "Unable to forgive this Scarlett Letterman" or "the Scarlett LetterMEN" ? Was just discussing this thread with the hubs and he said he has always heard it as LetterMEN, as in to mean not the person wearing the letter but the ones that put it on them, the ones who judged them. Just an interesting perspective.
@ADeadlierSnake "Unable to forgive this Scarlett Letterman" or "the Scarlett LetterMEN" ? Was just discussing this thread with the hubs and he said he has always heard it as LetterMEN, as in to mean not the person wearing the letter but the ones that put it on them, the ones who judged them. Just an interesting perspective.
Just like schism86 said, i had this post before the site re-vamped... I'm just gonna copy what I wrote before.. It's hella long, so only read it if your REALLY interested.
First off, sorry this is gonna be so long, I'm gonna disect pretty much every line Well guys, I'm not here to clear anything up on the meaning of this song, cuz I don't know it for sure. I like to think my interpretation is right (some of you are probably closer though), but it's open to everyone's views, and I love reading what all of you think. But anyway, here goes.
I think unlike most songs, Tool is pretty straightforward on this song. It doesn't seem allegorical, but it is quite deep. To be honest, after buying lateralus and hearing this song, it became my life motto. I hate grudges, and I can't stand holding them now. It just seems so childish.
I think Maynard is almost throwing the idea of grudge holding back into the faces of people that do it. He's making fun of them for such a savage thing. Like the first line...
"wear the grudge like a crown of negativity" (go ahead, put your grudge out where everyone can see it, let everyone know that you're mad and that you want to be that way).
"calculate what we will and will not tolerate" (decide exactly what you want to get mad over that would make you hold a grudge. this way when it happens, you can keep putting that crown back on)
"desperate to control all and everything" (you don't want to be on good terms. you WANT the grudge. if you can control the grudge, you can control the person you hold the grudge against.)
"unable to forgive your scarlet letterman" (although they know they've done wrong, you won't forgive them under any circumstance)
"clutch it like a cornerstone, otherwise it all comes down" (clutch the grudge that you hold like a cornerstone, because you know if you don't then the grudge dies. you don't want that)
"justify denials and grip em to the lonesome end" (come up with excuses to continue holding the grudge, and stand by them until the end, even when everyone hates you for what you're doing, hence lonesome)
"Terrified of being wrong, ultimatum prison cell" (you're scared to death that someone can prove that you have no reason to hold a grudge. you worry about it so much you put yourself in your own little prison over it) [Remember this whole time, I believe Maynard's making fun of the people that do this. Almost reverse psycology by showing them how stupid it is]
Then I have to agree with 'Insecure Dilusions' idea on the Saturn thing. Saturn was god of all greek gods. he was sooo worried he could be overthrown he ate his children. Yet Zeus was the one thing that Saturn overlooked. That one thing overthrew Saturn and killed him. Hang on to the grudge like saturn would, because if you don't you'll be humbled in your ignorance. And later he says "ignorant to the damage done"... ignorance isn't stupidity, it's not knowing about something. in this case, Saturn was ignorant to the damage done to himself until Zeus killed him.
"unable to forgive and we're sinking deeper" (you won't forgive, and for this you're slowly creating a larger grudge)
The grudge begins to define you, confine you, even control you.
Again to the Saturn reference for almost the rest of the song. Saying that Saturn, almost as if, takes over your body. He and you become one, you make the decisions Saturn chose. And not until you end the grudge will he quit tearing you apart.
Finally Maynard quit's criticizing and simply tells them what they need to do. Give away the (corner)stone. Let the oceans take and transmute this cold and weighted anchor (that was your grudge, holding you down). Give away the stone. Let the waters take and transmute these leaden (heavy burdensome) grudges into gold. LET GO.
And thus ends my entirely too long interpretation. However, this is what I believe and exactly how I feel. This pretty much explains my life motto. I thank each of your for your time in reading such a long and drawn out post. You deserve a pat on the back for putting up with my jabbering.
wow madson i really gotta say u got ur tool straight. i never really knew the lyrics till jsut recently and i had been thinkin about it. i think ur post was really insightful
wow madson i really gotta say u got ur tool straight. i never really knew the lyrics till jsut recently and i had been thinkin about it. i think ur post was really insightful
saturn has meanin within the Kabbalistic Tree of Life. Saturn houses a certain path that can influence one's choice, of letting something go..or keep it.
saturn has meanin within the Kabbalistic Tree of Life. Saturn houses a certain path that can influence one's choice, of letting something go..or keep it.
i agree with most of what you just said except for the saturn part. Saturn was the roman god of justice. So when it talks about saturn, its almost talking about a judge. He will punish you until you let go of the grudge.
i agree with most of what you just said except for the saturn part. Saturn was the roman god of justice. So when it talks about saturn, its almost talking about a judge. He will punish you until you let go of the grudge.
i agree with the song interpretation except for the saturn part... it's completely wrong.. saturn was a roman god not a greek god... and it was cronus the titan who ate all his children and was overthrown by zeus.
i agree with the song interpretation except for the saturn part... it's completely wrong.. saturn was a roman god not a greek god... and it was cronus the titan who ate all his children and was overthrown by zeus.
Thats pretty effin good
Thats pretty effin good
I totally agree with Madison's interpretaton.
I totally agree with Madison's interpretaton.
"Saturn comes back around to show you everything"
"Saturn comes back around to show you everything"
I would like to add my own thoughts on Saturn. Saturnm in astrology, since ancient times is known as the "greater Malefic", bringing the opposite to all good qualities and polarized against Jupiter. Where there is light, it brings darkness, warmth it brings cold, joy it brings sadness and so on. The song seems to address this negativity.
I would like to add my own thoughts on Saturn. Saturnm in astrology, since ancient times is known as the "greater Malefic", bringing the opposite to all good qualities and polarized against Jupiter. Where there is light, it brings darkness, warmth it brings cold, joy it brings sadness and so on. The song seems to address this negativity.
@kyleee1 Saturn and Cronos are the same "person". Cronos is his greek name and Saturn, his roman one.
@kyleee1 Saturn and Cronos are the same "person". Cronos is his greek name and Saturn, his roman one.
@madson I think this was pretty much spot on. I cant think of anything id argue with in this interpretation
@madson I think this was pretty much spot on. I cant think of anything id argue with in this interpretation
Looking at your tool’s grudge break down and I wanted to share a different perspective to the part of the song where he says “Saturn ascends, comes round again” part of the song. More than likely that part of the song has to do with Galileo debunking the earth centered concept of the universe.
Looking at your tool’s grudge break down and I wanted to share a different perspective to the part of the song where he says “Saturn ascends, comes round again” part of the song. More than likely that part of the song has to do with Galileo debunking the earth centered concept of the universe.
Saturn is the most notible celestial object that follows a retrograde motion in the night sky. Makes sort of a circle loop shape.
Saturn is the most notible celestial object that follows a retrograde motion in the night sky. Makes sort of a circle loop shape.
This of course proved the fallibility of the church
This of course proved the fallibility of the church
I still don’t know what’s meant by, “choose 1 or 10” though.
I still don’t know what’s meant by, “choose 1 or 10” though.
The line “unable to forgive this scarlet letterman” was a book written in 1850 about a woman who had an affair and is forced to wear the red scarlet letter A around her neck.
I understand the rest of the Saturn bit, but not the line that says
I understand the rest of the Saturn bit, but not the line that says
"...Saturn ascends, Choose one or ten..."
"...Saturn ascends, Choose one or ten..."
However, when it says "...Saturn ascends, comes round again..." That obviously means Saturn's orbit, and can be another metaphor.
However, when it says "...Saturn ascends, comes round again..." That obviously means Saturn's orbit, and can be another metaphor.
But the "...Choose one or ten..." is very confusing. Every time I hear this song, I think of this part, and I cannot understand this.
But the "...Choose one or ten..." is very confusing. Every time I hear this song, I think of this part, and I cannot understand this.
when u explained saturn the greek god eating his kids, i remembered the lines, to consume you till you let it go
when u explained saturn the greek god eating his kids, i remembered the lines, to consume you till you let it go
Well done Madison. More interpreters like you are needed
Well done Madison. More interpreters like you are needed
@madson4562 Hey! I think your interpretation is spot on. My only speculation is that I personally think this whole thing is directed towards himself, like he is telling himself how ridiculous all of this is, but he still holds this (or these) horrible grudge(s). The reason I think this is because the long (and epic :3) yell at the end of this, sounds like all the anger, anxiety, and desperation built up from this grudge is let out in one long and painful yell. But, I don't know, I think this because when I listen to this song, that's I...
@madson4562 Hey! I think your interpretation is spot on. My only speculation is that I personally think this whole thing is directed towards himself, like he is telling himself how ridiculous all of this is, but he still holds this (or these) horrible grudge(s). The reason I think this is because the long (and epic :3) yell at the end of this, sounds like all the anger, anxiety, and desperation built up from this grudge is let out in one long and painful yell. But, I don't know, I think this because when I listen to this song, that's I how I feel, I listen to this song when I am overwhelmed or when I am hating someone, so I can let it all out and remind myself that the grudge is nothing more but pure stupidity
@madson4562 I created an account just so I could give you a +1.
@madson4562 I created an account just so I could give you a +1.
I think everyone has the meaning probably spot on but I've always loved this song. It means something different to me now as I am a new member of al anon and find it really relates for me to the program. I'm also finally working on changing my whole life specifically feeling my emotions presently and allowing myself to actually feel emotions I've had stuffed inside for a good 20 years. So, I just find when I am down and resisting the necessary changes that I need to make, this song just reminds me it's okay it'll be worth it...
I think everyone has the meaning probably spot on but I've always loved this song. It means something different to me now as I am a new member of al anon and find it really relates for me to the program. I'm also finally working on changing my whole life specifically feeling my emotions presently and allowing myself to actually feel emotions I've had stuffed inside for a good 20 years. So, I just find when I am down and resisting the necessary changes that I need to make, this song just reminds me it's okay it'll be worth it in the end! Just thought I'd share my new perspective... : ) thanks!
@ADeadlierSnake "Unable to forgive this Scarlett Letterman" or "the Scarlett LetterMEN" ? Was just discussing this thread with the hubs and he said he has always heard it as LetterMEN, as in to mean not the person wearing the letter but the ones that put it on them, the ones who judged them. Just an interesting perspective.
@ADeadlierSnake "Unable to forgive this Scarlett Letterman" or "the Scarlett LetterMEN" ? Was just discussing this thread with the hubs and he said he has always heard it as LetterMEN, as in to mean not the person wearing the letter but the ones that put it on them, the ones who judged them. Just an interesting perspective.