I absolutely adore both this song by Sinéad O'Connor, and also the Van Morrison song Madame George, to which Ms. O'Connor alludes to in the lyric "England's not the mythical land of Madame George and roses".
However, what I don't understand is why Sinéad associates Madame George with England or englishness (roses). The location of the rather impressionistic events in Van Morrison's Madame George is firmly around Belfast, Morrisons's birthplace, with its mentions of Cyprus Avenue, Ford and Fitzroy (Avenue?) and Sandy Row, although Dublin is also mentioned "On that train from Dublin up to Sandy Row". There's nothing in the rest of Van's lyrics to indicate that the character Madame George may be English, either.
Would love to get an explanation for this.
@satchicenine I registered all these years later to reply to your question, so I have no idea whether you're still around or will ever see this. Yes, Van Morrison was from Northern Ireland, and areas in Belfast are heavily referenced on Astral Weeks, but there's also a significant London presence, as heard in "Slim Slow Slider," significantly the album closer:
@satchicenine I registered all these years later to reply to your question, so I have no idea whether you're still around or will ever see this. Yes, Van Morrison was from Northern Ireland, and areas in Belfast are heavily referenced on Astral Weeks, but there's also a significant London presence, as heard in "Slim Slow Slider," significantly the album closer:
"Saw you walking
Down by the Ladbroke Grove this morning."
"Saw you walking
Down by the Ladbroke Grove this morning."
@GuanoLoco Thanks for replying. I appreciate that some songs on Astral Weeks allude to places outside of NI & Ireland, like Ladbroke Grove in London, but I don't think Madame George does. For me, Madame George seems to be about Van being at a party in Belfast and feeling out of place and having the need to walk away and move on from the people and places he that shaped him. I love the line on the song Astral Weeks: "Ain't nothing but a stranger in this world", that also reflects this feeling. Admittedly, the album is famously a stream-of-consciousness,...
@GuanoLoco Thanks for replying. I appreciate that some songs on Astral Weeks allude to places outside of NI & Ireland, like Ladbroke Grove in London, but I don't think Madame George does. For me, Madame George seems to be about Van being at a party in Belfast and feeling out of place and having the need to walk away and move on from the people and places he that shaped him. I love the line on the song Astral Weeks: "Ain't nothing but a stranger in this world", that also reflects this feeling. Admittedly, the album is famously a stream-of-consciousness, so time and place and memories get mixed up.
I've often though that if I was ever fortunate enough to have met Sinéad O'Connor, the first thing I'd have asked her is about her Madam George reference in Black Boys on Mopeds. I'd also have told her that I agree with her that Van's album, 'Veedon Fleece', is equally as good, if not better, than Astral Weeks. (I've read that Veedon Fleece was Sinéad's favourite album). Sadly, recent events mean that my fantasy will never happen.
Rest In Peace, Sinéad.
@satchicenine Yes, I think it revolves more around a word you used yourself: impressionistic. While there are genuine locations scattered throughout Astral Weeks, ultimately it's more a mood than something concrete and tangible. I suspect Sinéad took that aspect and ran with it, conflating the character of Madame George and English roses, even though that might not have been Van Morrison's overt intention. The very sound of the character's name feels English. But sadly, you're right, and we'll never know for certain.
@satchicenine Yes, I think it revolves more around a word you used yourself: impressionistic. While there are genuine locations scattered throughout Astral Weeks, ultimately it's more a mood than something concrete and tangible. I suspect Sinéad took that aspect and ran with it, conflating the character of Madame George and English roses, even though that might not have been Van Morrison's overt intention. The very sound of the character's name feels English. But sadly, you're right, and we'll never know for certain.
I absolutely adore both this song by Sinéad O'Connor, and also the Van Morrison song Madame George, to which Ms. O'Connor alludes to in the lyric "England's not the mythical land of Madame George and roses". However, what I don't understand is why Sinéad associates Madame George with England or englishness (roses). The location of the rather impressionistic events in Van Morrison's Madame George is firmly around Belfast, Morrisons's birthplace, with its mentions of Cyprus Avenue, Ford and Fitzroy (Avenue?) and Sandy Row, although Dublin is also mentioned "On that train from Dublin up to Sandy Row". There's nothing in the rest of Van's lyrics to indicate that the character Madame George may be English, either. Would love to get an explanation for this.
[Edit: spelling correction of Madam to Madame]
@satchicenine I registered all these years later to reply to your question, so I have no idea whether you're still around or will ever see this. Yes, Van Morrison was from Northern Ireland, and areas in Belfast are heavily referenced on Astral Weeks, but there's also a significant London presence, as heard in "Slim Slow Slider," significantly the album closer:
@satchicenine I registered all these years later to reply to your question, so I have no idea whether you're still around or will ever see this. Yes, Van Morrison was from Northern Ireland, and areas in Belfast are heavily referenced on Astral Weeks, but there's also a significant London presence, as heard in "Slim Slow Slider," significantly the album closer:
"Saw you walking Down by the Ladbroke Grove this morning."
"Saw you walking Down by the Ladbroke Grove this morning."
@GuanoLoco Thanks for replying. I appreciate that some songs on Astral Weeks allude to places outside of NI & Ireland, like Ladbroke Grove in London, but I don't think Madame George does. For me, Madame George seems to be about Van being at a party in Belfast and feeling out of place and having the need to walk away and move on from the people and places he that shaped him. I love the line on the song Astral Weeks: "Ain't nothing but a stranger in this world", that also reflects this feeling. Admittedly, the album is famously a stream-of-consciousness,...
@GuanoLoco Thanks for replying. I appreciate that some songs on Astral Weeks allude to places outside of NI & Ireland, like Ladbroke Grove in London, but I don't think Madame George does. For me, Madame George seems to be about Van being at a party in Belfast and feeling out of place and having the need to walk away and move on from the people and places he that shaped him. I love the line on the song Astral Weeks: "Ain't nothing but a stranger in this world", that also reflects this feeling. Admittedly, the album is famously a stream-of-consciousness, so time and place and memories get mixed up. I've often though that if I was ever fortunate enough to have met Sinéad O'Connor, the first thing I'd have asked her is about her Madam George reference in Black Boys on Mopeds. I'd also have told her that I agree with her that Van's album, 'Veedon Fleece', is equally as good, if not better, than Astral Weeks. (I've read that Veedon Fleece was Sinéad's favourite album). Sadly, recent events mean that my fantasy will never happen. Rest In Peace, Sinéad.
@satchicenine Yes, I think it revolves more around a word you used yourself: impressionistic. While there are genuine locations scattered throughout Astral Weeks, ultimately it's more a mood than something concrete and tangible. I suspect Sinéad took that aspect and ran with it, conflating the character of Madame George and English roses, even though that might not have been Van Morrison's overt intention. The very sound of the character's name feels English. But sadly, you're right, and we'll never know for certain.
@satchicenine Yes, I think it revolves more around a word you used yourself: impressionistic. While there are genuine locations scattered throughout Astral Weeks, ultimately it's more a mood than something concrete and tangible. I suspect Sinéad took that aspect and ran with it, conflating the character of Madame George and English roses, even though that might not have been Van Morrison's overt intention. The very sound of the character's name feels English. But sadly, you're right, and we'll never know for certain.