The Rose in the song title is an allusion to Englishness (i.e. an English Rose, the national flower of England), which appears to be the general theme of this piece. The use of 'Europeans' avoids offence by being used ironically (England is of course in Europe) and deliberately non-specific. There is also use of irony in the context of the description of 'beautiful England' being juxtaposed with lines alluding to the grey damp climate and past glories (e.g. 'flithiness of ages','battered books', 'dead sea captains'). Lyrically, the scene moves on to London (the capital city of England), where a Hogarthian picture of drunkenness is painted ('stinking alleys','drunken beatings'). This is matched with the lines 'Past the Thames River, glistening like gold, Hastily sold for nothing', perhaps an allusion to the City of London and the banking crisis (the Bank of England holds the UK's gold reserves). The Thames River may be used in this context to imply 2 sorts of bank - a riverbank and a bank holding gold. Silver in the last verse is a play on the use of the word gold in the previous verse. The subject matter of the final verse appears to represent the simple glories of nature and suggests that they are dying out ('the last living rose'), perhaps because we hold them to be of less value (silver) than that of economic wealth (gold).
Gordon Brown (the last Prime Minister) famously sold much of the UK's gold reserves at a point when the price of gold was low. I reckon that 'like gold, hastily sold' is probably a reference to that.
Gordon Brown (the last Prime Minister) famously sold much of the UK's gold reserves at a point when the price of gold was low. I reckon that 'like gold, hastily sold' is probably a reference to that.
I wouldn't say that 'Goddamn Europeans' is ironic - you definitely disassociate yourself to some extent from Europe as an English person, like when you say you're going to Europe when you cross the Channel, it's more about cultural differentiation!
I wouldn't say that 'Goddamn Europeans' is ironic - you definitely disassociate yourself to some extent from Europe as an English person, like when you say you're going to Europe when you cross the Channel, it's more about cultural differentiation!
@cantabrigian The 'Europeans' often refers to mainland europe, particularly of it's time where this is set in a previous war. I think its far from offensive in the context, its still an ironic statement but not for the reason that England is in europe. Instead is the ambivalence many English people feel, a longing for home but find it often is not something so specific, given the state and culture it has often been in compared to other countries. They have a lot of bad things to say about their own country, and yet love it in a way that...
@cantabrigian The 'Europeans' often refers to mainland europe, particularly of it's time where this is set in a previous war. I think its far from offensive in the context, its still an ironic statement but not for the reason that England is in europe. Instead is the ambivalence many English people feel, a longing for home but find it often is not something so specific, given the state and culture it has often been in compared to other countries. They have a lot of bad things to say about their own country, and yet love it in a way that is not so easy to express and sometimes seems illogical. It is also possible that they are saying 'anywhere is better', they are sent to war on the mainland.
The Rose in the song title is an allusion to Englishness (i.e. an English Rose, the national flower of England), which appears to be the general theme of this piece. The use of 'Europeans' avoids offence by being used ironically (England is of course in Europe) and deliberately non-specific. There is also use of irony in the context of the description of 'beautiful England' being juxtaposed with lines alluding to the grey damp climate and past glories (e.g. 'flithiness of ages','battered books', 'dead sea captains'). Lyrically, the scene moves on to London (the capital city of England), where a Hogarthian picture of drunkenness is painted ('stinking alleys','drunken beatings'). This is matched with the lines 'Past the Thames River, glistening like gold, Hastily sold for nothing', perhaps an allusion to the City of London and the banking crisis (the Bank of England holds the UK's gold reserves). The Thames River may be used in this context to imply 2 sorts of bank - a riverbank and a bank holding gold. Silver in the last verse is a play on the use of the word gold in the previous verse. The subject matter of the final verse appears to represent the simple glories of nature and suggests that they are dying out ('the last living rose'), perhaps because we hold them to be of less value (silver) than that of economic wealth (gold).
Gordon Brown (the last Prime Minister) famously sold much of the UK's gold reserves at a point when the price of gold was low. I reckon that 'like gold, hastily sold' is probably a reference to that.
Gordon Brown (the last Prime Minister) famously sold much of the UK's gold reserves at a point when the price of gold was low. I reckon that 'like gold, hastily sold' is probably a reference to that.
Yeah I like to think that's what it's about.
Yeah I like to think that's what it's about.
I really appreciate that explanation - very knowledgable, thoughtful and well-put.
I really appreciate that explanation - very knowledgable, thoughtful and well-put.
I wouldn't say that 'Goddamn Europeans' is ironic - you definitely disassociate yourself to some extent from Europe as an English person, like when you say you're going to Europe when you cross the Channel, it's more about cultural differentiation!
I wouldn't say that 'Goddamn Europeans' is ironic - you definitely disassociate yourself to some extent from Europe as an English person, like when you say you're going to Europe when you cross the Channel, it's more about cultural differentiation!
@cantabrigian The 'Europeans' often refers to mainland europe, particularly of it's time where this is set in a previous war. I think its far from offensive in the context, its still an ironic statement but not for the reason that England is in europe. Instead is the ambivalence many English people feel, a longing for home but find it often is not something so specific, given the state and culture it has often been in compared to other countries. They have a lot of bad things to say about their own country, and yet love it in a way that...
@cantabrigian The 'Europeans' often refers to mainland europe, particularly of it's time where this is set in a previous war. I think its far from offensive in the context, its still an ironic statement but not for the reason that England is in europe. Instead is the ambivalence many English people feel, a longing for home but find it often is not something so specific, given the state and culture it has often been in compared to other countries. They have a lot of bad things to say about their own country, and yet love it in a way that is not so easy to express and sometimes seems illogical. It is also possible that they are saying 'anywhere is better', they are sent to war on the mainland.