MOTORCYCLE EMPTINESS = FUCKING BIG STINKING SHINY VOID - ON WHEELS. That is what the band wonderfully reduced consumerism to. How can you flaw this song when it speaks the truth so beautifully. Liminal2, you made some great observations about this song, but your first line analysis maybe a little off. I think what CULTURE SUCKS DOWN WORDS means is how generally our language is cohearsed or guided by what we hear through the media. We bend words and their meanings to fit with our personal bias's/viewpoints which in turn are adopted often thoughtlessly via reporting/advertising etc... ITEMISE LOATHING AND FEED YOURSELF SMILES - I think you nailed this one. ORGANISE YOUR SAFE TRIBAL WAR - Again you made some excellent points about this lyric. It could also be talking about peaceful protest and how it has become a token activity while leaders in 'free consumerist countries' continue to slowly crush our liberties and offer miniscule rewards to maintain the notion of fair play.
LIFE LIES A SLOW SUICIDE
Some might say most of the things that are supposed to satisfy us - ultimately kill us.... And we know it but choose to ignore. The underlying reason? We are deeply unhappy (talking generally about consumerist cultures) and have decreased personal value but increased ego. We feel invincible on one level when surrounded by safety of 24 hour shopping, just about every distraction possible on demand, reinforcment from equally unhappy friends and family etc... Yet the fundamental awareness of our mortality clashes with our ego and we feed it by acting in what we know will be ultimately destructive ways. Its like regaining control of mortality by letting the ego take over and subconsciously say "I will not accept my mortality is out of my hands - I alone will decide when I've had enough."
ORTHODOX DREAMS AND SYMBOLIC MYTHS
Well this is typical human egocentric behaviour. Tying so much meaning into symbolism (see Astrology, religion) as a way of trying to identify with whatever spirituality is supposed to mean. A religious person for example will look at a cross and pray holding onto one because that symbolises spirituality to them. Why? Because that's what they have been told spirituality is or is symbolised by and that's good enough to to keep the ego fed. Spirituality is such a nonsense word that vast amounts of symbolism can be attached to it and accepted as actuality. The idea that life after death is better is a powerful one as long as the notion that deep seeded unhappiness with how we live in consumerist cultures exists.
FROM FEUDAL SERF TO SPENDER
I am not terribly well informed on the Serfs, so its difficult to comment, but I understand that they were essentially slaves who built an enormous amount of infrastructure for the upper classes but had no rights to use what they created. I think I can see where the Manics found room for that reference in this song.
THIS WONDERFUL WORLD OF PURCHASE POWER
Whereas the class divide once determined how much u could possibly own depending on what side of the fence you came from, credit and loaning etc... has meant consumerism is wider spread than ever. Just because your near-broke doesn't mean you should miss out on spending loads of money on crap you really don't need. You can feel like your keeping up with Joneses - while spiraling into debt. The level of importance put on ownership is kind of absurd. Especially considering how most of your crap will be around a lot longer than you.
....Okay, anybody want to have a go at the last verse?
Awesome - we are most definitely on the same page here. While I've got a lot of time for later Manics' stuff, Motorcycle Emptiness is and will always be their finest hour. Glad to see that other people can use it as a platform to articulate their suspicions that capitalism is crap... as the video was filmed in Shinjuku (Tokyo), I think the Japanese expression' ganbarimasu' is particularly appropriate here. Let's look forward to someone's analysis of the last verse...
Awesome - we are most definitely on the same page here. While I've got a lot of time for later Manics' stuff, Motorcycle Emptiness is and will always be their finest hour. Glad to see that other people can use it as a platform to articulate their suspicions that capitalism is crap... as the video was filmed in Shinjuku (Tokyo), I think the Japanese expression' ganbarimasu' is particularly appropriate here. Let's look forward to someone's analysis of the last verse...
Liminal2
Yeah, I was totally into what you surmised and in particular how much this song's meaning had remained strong for you. For myself, it has gradually increased - after years of simply 'enjoying it' - to realising the stark reality it captures that so few songs can/have. As you say also, it is a platform in a way and even something of a sad reminder that we're already there. If this song has done anything for me, it's to take a lot more notice of the effects of consumerism and to try and avoid being wasteful. Plus as soon as...
Liminal2
Yeah, I was totally into what you surmised and in particular how much this song's meaning had remained strong for you. For myself, it has gradually increased - after years of simply 'enjoying it' - to realising the stark reality it captures that so few songs can/have. As you say also, it is a platform in a way and even something of a sad reminder that we're already there. If this song has done anything for me, it's to take a lot more notice of the effects of consumerism and to try and avoid being wasteful. Plus as soon as people begin to talk about what they own and how much it cost them, I can't help getting the refrain of Motorcycle Emptiness stuck in my head. The idea of 'consumerist culture' is totally ruined for me - I know deep down I could never be happy living like that. I'm just pleased that a song such as this came along and could articulate what I was feeling so bent about.
Hi lateleigh,
Looks like we could have a long-running discussion about the depths of this song, if we post replies once a month! Not sure how old you are but I'm guessing you first heard this song as a kid or a teenager, and it articulated a lot of thoughts that weren't quite fully formed in your head at that time. It's great to know that it's led to positive action in your life, being less wasteful and so on. It has certainly been a fundamental part of me steering a path away from consumerism. The thing about great songs like...
Hi lateleigh,
Looks like we could have a long-running discussion about the depths of this song, if we post replies once a month! Not sure how old you are but I'm guessing you first heard this song as a kid or a teenager, and it articulated a lot of thoughts that weren't quite fully formed in your head at that time. It's great to know that it's led to positive action in your life, being less wasteful and so on. It has certainly been a fundamental part of me steering a path away from consumerism. The thing about great songs like this is that they gain relevance rather than lose relevance as I get older. The lines 'Your joys are counterfeit/ This happiness corrupt political shit' rolls around my head a lot lately, as I slowly awake in the matrix and realise how our political system is inextricably tied to the corporations, that we are just fodder to consume and be consumed in this terrible modern machine. All 'democracy' means is the freedom to compete tooth and nail against each other, scraping a living wage if we're lucky, which we have no choice but to put in the bank for the wankers to play roulette with at the high-stakes stocks and shares gambling table. And with the little money we do have left after all the bills and the fat cats have been paid, we are free to become addicted to the consumer crap piled on every corner. And we hold this way of living up to the rest of the world as if this will make people free and happy. The joy is counterfeit, but it's an incredibly convincing and all-encompassing illusion that North African and Middle Eastern states are clamoring and willing to die for right now. I have no doubt that living under a dictator is awful in different ways, but if only we could translate Motorcycle Emptiness into all the local languages and post it somewhere for them to see on facebook and twitter. Then they might see that going from feudal serf to spender doesn't allow the people to become free of the masterfully planned machine, it only changes their function within it. Amazing how just one line of this song can encapsulate all of that for me. One line that hasn't quite come to fruition for me yet is 'all we want from you is the kicks you've given us'. What's your take on that line?
Its been a long while, but I ended up back here somehow just to see if you had added any further comments and there you are! I wanna talk about the line 'All we want from you are the kicks you've given us' as you mentioned it in your last post. This is the line in the song that first got to me when I was really exploring the Manics music properly for the first time after the 'This Is My Truth' album came out. I went backwards from there even though I owned 'Generation Terrorists' and 'Everything Must Go' already, but I had yet to invest in their songs' actual depth and meaning. 'This Is My Truth' might seem like an odd place to start, but the song 'Tsunami' was intriguing for me and once I discovered this incredible story of the Silent Twins through that track, I decided to investigate all the stuff I had overlooked on their former albums. 'Motorcycle Emptiness' was a great/memorable rock song initially, and that's about all the thought I had given it, but that line 'All we want from you are the kicks you've given us' stood out right away. Kicks = cheap thrills, obviously. It's possibly enough for many people to accept the distractions from the real shitty side of consumerism and capitalism. As long as the conveniences and amusements keep coming, it's just enough for some people. Finding out what actually makes you happy is so much more difficult than just taking the thrills, pills and shiny new things on offer.
The rest of your last message was interesting as well. The battle for democracy - the thing that apparently creates waves of envy from non-Western countries - is a lie in that it completely fails in what it promises to provide. You were spot on about democracy being the freedom to compete brutally against one another. A divided community, or one in fear of/in competition with its neighbour is one that is submissive and manageable. Dictatorships are horrendous, but aren't they simply more transparent versions of democratic governing by today's standards? Its like the saying 'communism is the longest road to capitalism, and capitalism is the longest road to communism' - or every form of government eventually becomes a dictatorship. Upheaval by populations in certain non-democratic countries seems to be about what religion is the best one rather than solving human rights abuse issues and in the West I guess we have a different set of futile distractions.
Ego loaded and swallow! Once you realise ego is such a controlling force in human behaviour you start to look at things differently I think. What motivates this that and the other... If its mindless and seems to serve the good of only the few its probably born in ego.
Any further thoughts from you would be welcome Limina2.
Hey, it was cool to come back and find you'd added another post. I like your interpretation of the 'kicks' line, but I've been thinking about it a bit more and it seems ambivalent. There is also 'kicks' in the sense of 'give somebody a kicking', which reminds me of Richey's lyric 'at least a beaten dog knows how to lie.' I think a lot of Richey's lyrics were to do with his inability to just conform, 'shut up and be still' (as goes the demon headmaster's voice in Pink Floyd's Another Brick in the Wall). The lyric 'If you...
Hey, it was cool to come back and find you'd added another post. I like your interpretation of the 'kicks' line, but I've been thinking about it a bit more and it seems ambivalent. There is also 'kicks' in the sense of 'give somebody a kicking', which reminds me of Richey's lyric 'at least a beaten dog knows how to lie.' I think a lot of Richey's lyrics were to do with his inability to just conform, 'shut up and be still' (as goes the demon headmaster's voice in Pink Floyd's Another Brick in the Wall). The lyric 'If you stand up like a nail you will be knocked down' from 'Faster' is another good example of this. But Richey is full of fight in Motorcycle Emptiness, and 'all we want from you are the kicks you've given us' suggests he needs the conformist culture there so he can kick back against it - that gives him a feeling of revolutionary heroism that I think we all get when we 'kick against the pricks' (an old English idiom).
Interestingly, that lyric from Faster is a Japanese idiom, and the Motorcycle Emptiness video was filmed in Shinjuku, Tokyo where I used to live. The Manics had a massive fanbase out there and I think Richey often had the Japanese in mind when thinking about the challenges of self-expression in a rigid and conformist society.
Interesting that you came at the Manics from 'This is my truth...' - a great place to start, and a very beautiful and personal album though different from the earlier ones - less political, more personal, kind of like comparing Radiohead's 'In Rainbows' with 'Hail to the Thief.' 'Little Empire' and 'Be Natural' stand out for me, though it is one of those rare albums without a dud track on it.
Anyway, good to hear from you again, mail me any thoughts you have about anything as you are so perceptive and articulate that it is a pleasure to read your posts.
Hi, once again, I think you have picked up on something here I might have mis-interpreted. The 'Kicks' line makes more sense taking in to account the 'fall-back' idea. I am sure Richey was fully aware of the contradiction of having socialist values and being invloved with a conglomorate like Sony or even just in the marketing of music as a 'product' in general. I think he wanted to distance himself from consumerism by calling it a kind of 'emptiness' which is what gives the song such a sorrowful edge. He knew it was pointless, but his vanity ensured he had little choice but to give in to at least some of its offerings. In a way its the ultimate challenge - the idea of living without the 'kicks' perhaps enters most people's minds at some stage (the appeal of the whole crashing on a desert island with no comforts simplicity) but in reality, most of us aren't really wired up in such a way that we could practically sustain ourselves that way. 'Motorcycle Emptiness' presents the ultimate conundrum of modern living, or more to the point, globalisation. The things that create heated debate and continue to divide opinion are senseless dogmatic religions, which political party is slightly less crap than the other, how can we make more money fast etc... In most people's minds, these are the real big issues, not whether or not any of it actually works. Its like one huge ongoing distraction from the rampant removal of our basic liberties and the feeling left from it all is, we need 'them' because there's no other feesable option.
MOTORCYCLE EMPTINESS = FUCKING BIG STINKING SHINY VOID - ON WHEELS. That is what the band wonderfully reduced consumerism to. How can you flaw this song when it speaks the truth so beautifully. Liminal2, you made some great observations about this song, but your first line analysis maybe a little off. I think what CULTURE SUCKS DOWN WORDS means is how generally our language is cohearsed or guided by what we hear through the media. We bend words and their meanings to fit with our personal bias's/viewpoints which in turn are adopted often thoughtlessly via reporting/advertising etc... ITEMISE LOATHING AND FEED YOURSELF SMILES - I think you nailed this one. ORGANISE YOUR SAFE TRIBAL WAR - Again you made some excellent points about this lyric. It could also be talking about peaceful protest and how it has become a token activity while leaders in 'free consumerist countries' continue to slowly crush our liberties and offer miniscule rewards to maintain the notion of fair play.
LIFE LIES A SLOW SUICIDE Some might say most of the things that are supposed to satisfy us - ultimately kill us.... And we know it but choose to ignore. The underlying reason? We are deeply unhappy (talking generally about consumerist cultures) and have decreased personal value but increased ego. We feel invincible on one level when surrounded by safety of 24 hour shopping, just about every distraction possible on demand, reinforcment from equally unhappy friends and family etc... Yet the fundamental awareness of our mortality clashes with our ego and we feed it by acting in what we know will be ultimately destructive ways. Its like regaining control of mortality by letting the ego take over and subconsciously say "I will not accept my mortality is out of my hands - I alone will decide when I've had enough."
ORTHODOX DREAMS AND SYMBOLIC MYTHS Well this is typical human egocentric behaviour. Tying so much meaning into symbolism (see Astrology, religion) as a way of trying to identify with whatever spirituality is supposed to mean. A religious person for example will look at a cross and pray holding onto one because that symbolises spirituality to them. Why? Because that's what they have been told spirituality is or is symbolised by and that's good enough to to keep the ego fed. Spirituality is such a nonsense word that vast amounts of symbolism can be attached to it and accepted as actuality. The idea that life after death is better is a powerful one as long as the notion that deep seeded unhappiness with how we live in consumerist cultures exists.
FROM FEUDAL SERF TO SPENDER I am not terribly well informed on the Serfs, so its difficult to comment, but I understand that they were essentially slaves who built an enormous amount of infrastructure for the upper classes but had no rights to use what they created. I think I can see where the Manics found room for that reference in this song.
THIS WONDERFUL WORLD OF PURCHASE POWER Whereas the class divide once determined how much u could possibly own depending on what side of the fence you came from, credit and loaning etc... has meant consumerism is wider spread than ever. Just because your near-broke doesn't mean you should miss out on spending loads of money on crap you really don't need. You can feel like your keeping up with Joneses - while spiraling into debt. The level of importance put on ownership is kind of absurd. Especially considering how most of your crap will be around a lot longer than you.
....Okay, anybody want to have a go at the last verse?
Awesome - we are most definitely on the same page here. While I've got a lot of time for later Manics' stuff, Motorcycle Emptiness is and will always be their finest hour. Glad to see that other people can use it as a platform to articulate their suspicions that capitalism is crap... as the video was filmed in Shinjuku (Tokyo), I think the Japanese expression' ganbarimasu' is particularly appropriate here. Let's look forward to someone's analysis of the last verse...
Awesome - we are most definitely on the same page here. While I've got a lot of time for later Manics' stuff, Motorcycle Emptiness is and will always be their finest hour. Glad to see that other people can use it as a platform to articulate their suspicions that capitalism is crap... as the video was filmed in Shinjuku (Tokyo), I think the Japanese expression' ganbarimasu' is particularly appropriate here. Let's look forward to someone's analysis of the last verse...
Liminal2 Yeah, I was totally into what you surmised and in particular how much this song's meaning had remained strong for you. For myself, it has gradually increased - after years of simply 'enjoying it' - to realising the stark reality it captures that so few songs can/have. As you say also, it is a platform in a way and even something of a sad reminder that we're already there. If this song has done anything for me, it's to take a lot more notice of the effects of consumerism and to try and avoid being wasteful. Plus as soon as...
Liminal2 Yeah, I was totally into what you surmised and in particular how much this song's meaning had remained strong for you. For myself, it has gradually increased - after years of simply 'enjoying it' - to realising the stark reality it captures that so few songs can/have. As you say also, it is a platform in a way and even something of a sad reminder that we're already there. If this song has done anything for me, it's to take a lot more notice of the effects of consumerism and to try and avoid being wasteful. Plus as soon as people begin to talk about what they own and how much it cost them, I can't help getting the refrain of Motorcycle Emptiness stuck in my head. The idea of 'consumerist culture' is totally ruined for me - I know deep down I could never be happy living like that. I'm just pleased that a song such as this came along and could articulate what I was feeling so bent about.
Hi lateleigh, Looks like we could have a long-running discussion about the depths of this song, if we post replies once a month! Not sure how old you are but I'm guessing you first heard this song as a kid or a teenager, and it articulated a lot of thoughts that weren't quite fully formed in your head at that time. It's great to know that it's led to positive action in your life, being less wasteful and so on. It has certainly been a fundamental part of me steering a path away from consumerism. The thing about great songs like...
Hi lateleigh, Looks like we could have a long-running discussion about the depths of this song, if we post replies once a month! Not sure how old you are but I'm guessing you first heard this song as a kid or a teenager, and it articulated a lot of thoughts that weren't quite fully formed in your head at that time. It's great to know that it's led to positive action in your life, being less wasteful and so on. It has certainly been a fundamental part of me steering a path away from consumerism. The thing about great songs like this is that they gain relevance rather than lose relevance as I get older. The lines 'Your joys are counterfeit/ This happiness corrupt political shit' rolls around my head a lot lately, as I slowly awake in the matrix and realise how our political system is inextricably tied to the corporations, that we are just fodder to consume and be consumed in this terrible modern machine. All 'democracy' means is the freedom to compete tooth and nail against each other, scraping a living wage if we're lucky, which we have no choice but to put in the bank for the wankers to play roulette with at the high-stakes stocks and shares gambling table. And with the little money we do have left after all the bills and the fat cats have been paid, we are free to become addicted to the consumer crap piled on every corner. And we hold this way of living up to the rest of the world as if this will make people free and happy. The joy is counterfeit, but it's an incredibly convincing and all-encompassing illusion that North African and Middle Eastern states are clamoring and willing to die for right now. I have no doubt that living under a dictator is awful in different ways, but if only we could translate Motorcycle Emptiness into all the local languages and post it somewhere for them to see on facebook and twitter. Then they might see that going from feudal serf to spender doesn't allow the people to become free of the masterfully planned machine, it only changes their function within it. Amazing how just one line of this song can encapsulate all of that for me. One line that hasn't quite come to fruition for me yet is 'all we want from you is the kicks you've given us'. What's your take on that line?
Liminal2
Liminal2
Its been a long while, but I ended up back here somehow just to see if you had added any further comments and there you are! I wanna talk about the line 'All we want from you are the kicks you've given us' as you mentioned it in your last post. This is the line in the song that first got to me when I was really exploring the Manics music properly for the first time after the 'This Is My Truth' album came out. I went backwards from there even though I owned 'Generation Terrorists' and 'Everything Must Go' already, but I had yet to invest in their songs' actual depth and meaning. 'This Is My Truth' might seem like an odd place to start, but the song 'Tsunami' was intriguing for me and once I discovered this incredible story of the Silent Twins through that track, I decided to investigate all the stuff I had overlooked on their former albums. 'Motorcycle Emptiness' was a great/memorable rock song initially, and that's about all the thought I had given it, but that line 'All we want from you are the kicks you've given us' stood out right away. Kicks = cheap thrills, obviously. It's possibly enough for many people to accept the distractions from the real shitty side of consumerism and capitalism. As long as the conveniences and amusements keep coming, it's just enough for some people. Finding out what actually makes you happy is so much more difficult than just taking the thrills, pills and shiny new things on offer.
The rest of your last message was interesting as well. The battle for democracy - the thing that apparently creates waves of envy from non-Western countries - is a lie in that it completely fails in what it promises to provide. You were spot on about democracy being the freedom to compete brutally against one another. A divided community, or one in fear of/in competition with its neighbour is one that is submissive and manageable. Dictatorships are horrendous, but aren't they simply more transparent versions of democratic governing by today's standards? Its like the saying 'communism is the longest road to capitalism, and capitalism is the longest road to communism' - or every form of government eventually becomes a dictatorship. Upheaval by populations in certain non-democratic countries seems to be about what religion is the best one rather than solving human rights abuse issues and in the West I guess we have a different set of futile distractions.
Ego loaded and swallow! Once you realise ego is such a controlling force in human behaviour you start to look at things differently I think. What motivates this that and the other... If its mindless and seems to serve the good of only the few its probably born in ego.
Any further thoughts from you would be welcome Limina2.
Hey, it was cool to come back and find you'd added another post. I like your interpretation of the 'kicks' line, but I've been thinking about it a bit more and it seems ambivalent. There is also 'kicks' in the sense of 'give somebody a kicking', which reminds me of Richey's lyric 'at least a beaten dog knows how to lie.' I think a lot of Richey's lyrics were to do with his inability to just conform, 'shut up and be still' (as goes the demon headmaster's voice in Pink Floyd's Another Brick in the Wall). The lyric 'If you...
Hey, it was cool to come back and find you'd added another post. I like your interpretation of the 'kicks' line, but I've been thinking about it a bit more and it seems ambivalent. There is also 'kicks' in the sense of 'give somebody a kicking', which reminds me of Richey's lyric 'at least a beaten dog knows how to lie.' I think a lot of Richey's lyrics were to do with his inability to just conform, 'shut up and be still' (as goes the demon headmaster's voice in Pink Floyd's Another Brick in the Wall). The lyric 'If you stand up like a nail you will be knocked down' from 'Faster' is another good example of this. But Richey is full of fight in Motorcycle Emptiness, and 'all we want from you are the kicks you've given us' suggests he needs the conformist culture there so he can kick back against it - that gives him a feeling of revolutionary heroism that I think we all get when we 'kick against the pricks' (an old English idiom).
Interestingly, that lyric from Faster is a Japanese idiom, and the Motorcycle Emptiness video was filmed in Shinjuku, Tokyo where I used to live. The Manics had a massive fanbase out there and I think Richey often had the Japanese in mind when thinking about the challenges of self-expression in a rigid and conformist society.
Interesting that you came at the Manics from 'This is my truth...' - a great place to start, and a very beautiful and personal album though different from the earlier ones - less political, more personal, kind of like comparing Radiohead's 'In Rainbows' with 'Hail to the Thief.' 'Little Empire' and 'Be Natural' stand out for me, though it is one of those rare albums without a dud track on it.
Anyway, good to hear from you again, mail me any thoughts you have about anything as you are so perceptive and articulate that it is a pleasure to read your posts.
Liminal2
Liminal2
Hi, once again, I think you have picked up on something here I might have mis-interpreted. The 'Kicks' line makes more sense taking in to account the 'fall-back' idea. I am sure Richey was fully aware of the contradiction of having socialist values and being invloved with a conglomorate like Sony or even just in the marketing of music as a 'product' in general. I think he wanted to distance himself from consumerism by calling it a kind of 'emptiness' which is what gives the song such a sorrowful edge. He knew it was pointless, but his vanity ensured he had little choice but to give in to at least some of its offerings. In a way its the ultimate challenge - the idea of living without the 'kicks' perhaps enters most people's minds at some stage (the appeal of the whole crashing on a desert island with no comforts simplicity) but in reality, most of us aren't really wired up in such a way that we could practically sustain ourselves that way. 'Motorcycle Emptiness' presents the ultimate conundrum of modern living, or more to the point, globalisation. The things that create heated debate and continue to divide opinion are senseless dogmatic religions, which political party is slightly less crap than the other, how can we make more money fast etc... In most people's minds, these are the real big issues, not whether or not any of it actually works. Its like one huge ongoing distraction from the rampant removal of our basic liberties and the feeling left from it all is, we need 'them' because there's no other feesable option.