Everything I've read says this song is about the Doctor and the Daleks, but unless Charlie has specifically said that that's the case, I'd respectfully disagree. To me, it seems obvious that its about the Doctor and Master, not the Daleks.
Here's my reasoning:
1) The eighth Doctor brought the Master to Skaro. We see him returning from this trip in the movie (featuring the only appearance of the ninth Doctor on screen). Before the series was restarted, this was the last time the Master had seen the Doctor.
2) "I am locked in war with you" is a very odd phrase. Usually people are "at war," not "in war". However, people /are/ "in love". The Doctor and the Master's relationship has always been one of both love and hate. The Daleks only ever hate the Doctor, never love him.
3) "Exterminate, regenerate"... In this phrase the use of "exterminate" definitely suggests Daleks, and I think that's where a lot of the confusion come from. However, I believe this is a reference to the fact that both the Doctor and Master have killed ("exterminated") each other several times, but they both always come back.
4) The idea that it is the Master singing to the Doctor is backed up by the statement that "we are both the same," i.e. they are both Timelords. The Daleks and the Doctor have almost nothing in common.
5) "As men we have our contrasts" - how can this be from the point of view of a Dalek if "we" are "men"? The Daleks are not men and never have been.
6) "Our constant companion is death" - I believe this is an ironic reference to the fact that Timelords have companions, and at least for the Master and the Doctor, those companions frequently end up dead.
7) "If it takes till the end of reality to beat you..." - the Daleks are not obsessed with defeating the Doctor. To them, he is the enemy, and they want him gone but its not an obsession. The only one obsessed with defeating the Doctor (and the one who literally went to the end of reality) is the Master.
8) The suggestion that the Doctor and the singer might travel time together is not one the Daleks would /ever/ make. It is however something that the Doctor suggested to the Master before he died as Saxon.
Well, while I myself think it does fit the Doctor/Master relationship a little, I am pretty certain it is written about the Doctor and Davros (and perhaps the Daleks).
Well, while I myself think it does fit the Doctor/Master relationship a little, I am pretty certain it is written about the Doctor and Davros (and perhaps the Daleks).
In Journey's End, Davros speaks about the Doctor fashioning people into weapons (with the words 'fashion people into weapons' or sth, similar to these lyrics). In the same episode, The Doctor also asks Davros to come along when he's about to escape the Dalek ship thing with the TARDIS (Davros declined the offer). I think the 'reality' thing ('If it takes till the end of reality to beat you') might also be a nod towards the whole reality bomb thing. 'locked in war', the Doctor and Davros keep meeting. They thought (Doctor, Sarah Jane) that Davros was dead, but he wasn't.
If you look at the facts, I think this is definitely about Davros/The Doctor, but I do like it as a Doctor/Master song as well.
Well, while I myself think it does fit the Doctor/Master relationship a little, I am pretty certain it is written about the Doctor and Davros (and perhaps the Daleks).
Well, while I myself think it does fit the Doctor/Master relationship a little, I am pretty certain it is written about the Doctor and Davros (and perhaps the Daleks).
In Journey's End, Davros speaks about the Doctor fashioning people into weapons (with the words 'fashion people into weapons' or sth, similar to these lyrics). In the same episode, The Doctor also asks Davros to come along when he's about to escape the Dalek ship thing with the TARDIS (Davros declined the offer). I think the 'reality' thing ('If it takes till the end of reality to beat you') might also be a nod towards the whole reality bomb thing. 'locked in war', the Doctor and Davros keep meeting. They thought (Doctor, Sarah Jane) that Davros was dead, but he wasn't.
If you look at the facts, I think this is definitely about Davros/The Doctor, but I do like it as a Doctor/Master song as well.
Yeah, I have to respectfully disagree, it's not about the Doctor and the Master, it's about the Doctor and the Daleks, or more specifically, the Doctor and Davros.
Yeah, I have to respectfully disagree, it's not about the Doctor and the Master, it's about the Doctor and the Daleks, or more specifically, the Doctor and Davros.
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"Since I MET you back on Skaro". "Met", not "brought you to", is the key here. The Doctor met Davros in the long ago ages of myth, before the Daleks were truly the Daleks.
I'm not sure who the first verse is supposed to be, but I think it's from the Doctor's perspective.
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"Since I MET you back on Skaro". "Met", not "brought you to", is the key here. The Doctor met Davros in the long ago ages of myth, before the Daleks were truly the Daleks.
I'm not sure who the first verse is supposed to be, but I think it's from the Doctor's perspective.
i>
Locked in war is actually a very interesting phrase, especially with how often the Doctor has mentioned the Time War being a "time-locked" event, separated from all else, and Davros' own death within the war.
i>
I think Chameleon Circuit knows their references well enough, and are clever enough, that they wouldn't name this "Exterminate, Regenerate" if it didn't explicitly have something to do with the Daleks. "Exterminate" is the Dalek catch-word. Beyond this, the Master has not explicitly killed the Doctor, whereas the Daleks have directly caused the death of the Doctor on at least one occasion (potentially 2, once in the Time War), as well as being a major reason for at least one other death.
i>
"We are the same" is, I would believe, sung from the Doctor's perspective. And to get this, you really need to know his philosophy. He thinks that every sentient being is, or should be, like him. Everyone is redeemable, EVEN (despite his occasional fury) the Daleks and Davros. The Doctor looks for the goodness in everything and tries to find it.
i>
Again, this is a definite comparison with the Doctor and Davros. Davros is still mostly attached to his humanoid Kaled form, not the more evolved Dalek form. And yes, the Daleks were once very man-like, in their Kaled stage.
i>
The Master rarely has companions, actually, but the "constant companion is death" statement is something that has followed the Doctor around for ages. Wherever the Doctor goes, death tends to follow. And where the Daleks go, death follows, as well. It's an apt description of both. Certainly, the Master could be included in this as well, but I think the evidence is heavily towards Daleks at this point.
i>
Elinious covered this point well already, but it's worth noting that the Master waited until the end of the universe, whereas Davros was willing to destroy all of reality to take out the Doctor, and the Daleks were inclined to go along with it.
The Daleks are VERY obsessed with defeating the Doctor. Why would they not be? They have more to gain from it than the Master. For the Master, the Doctor is a challenge, someone that keeps popping up as an equal on the playing field. The Master has too great an ego to see the Doctor as a TRUE threat. For the Daleks, the Doctor has utterly destroyed their civilization at least a few times. He is known as the "Oncoming Storm". He is a warrior capable of destroying all that is Dalek, and they fear and wish to eliminate this utterly, even going to the point of teaming up with all the forces of the universe to contain him within the Pandorica.
i>
Again, Elinious mentioned this, but it bears repeating. The Doctor thinks everyone can be redeemed. Or at least contained. The suggestion that he could change the Daleks is something important to him.
Met doesn't nescasarily mean the first time, I personally think it could be about Either Davros/Doctor or Master/Doctor, both of these have merit to them.
Met doesn't nescasarily mean the first time, I personally think it could be about Either Davros/Doctor or Master/Doctor, both of these have merit to them.
i can see your understanding but the doctor and master met on gallifrey for number one because they were friends a first and the master said that they would run accross his fathers estates.
i can see your understanding but the doctor and master met on gallifrey for number one because they were friends a first and the master said that they would run accross his fathers estates.
Everything I've read says this song is about the Doctor and the Daleks, but unless Charlie has specifically said that that's the case, I'd respectfully disagree. To me, it seems obvious that its about the Doctor and Master, not the Daleks.
Here's my reasoning:
1) The eighth Doctor brought the Master to Skaro. We see him returning from this trip in the movie (featuring the only appearance of the ninth Doctor on screen). Before the series was restarted, this was the last time the Master had seen the Doctor.
2) "I am locked in war with you" is a very odd phrase. Usually people are "at war," not "in war". However, people /are/ "in love". The Doctor and the Master's relationship has always been one of both love and hate. The Daleks only ever hate the Doctor, never love him.
3) "Exterminate, regenerate"... In this phrase the use of "exterminate" definitely suggests Daleks, and I think that's where a lot of the confusion come from. However, I believe this is a reference to the fact that both the Doctor and Master have killed ("exterminated") each other several times, but they both always come back.
4) The idea that it is the Master singing to the Doctor is backed up by the statement that "we are both the same," i.e. they are both Timelords. The Daleks and the Doctor have almost nothing in common.
5) "As men we have our contrasts" - how can this be from the point of view of a Dalek if "we" are "men"? The Daleks are not men and never have been.
6) "Our constant companion is death" - I believe this is an ironic reference to the fact that Timelords have companions, and at least for the Master and the Doctor, those companions frequently end up dead.
7) "If it takes till the end of reality to beat you..." - the Daleks are not obsessed with defeating the Doctor. To them, he is the enemy, and they want him gone but its not an obsession. The only one obsessed with defeating the Doctor (and the one who literally went to the end of reality) is the Master.
8) The suggestion that the Doctor and the singer might travel time together is not one the Daleks would /ever/ make. It is however something that the Doctor suggested to the Master before he died as Saxon.
Well, while I myself think it does fit the Doctor/Master relationship a little, I am pretty certain it is written about the Doctor and Davros (and perhaps the Daleks).
Well, while I myself think it does fit the Doctor/Master relationship a little, I am pretty certain it is written about the Doctor and Davros (and perhaps the Daleks).
In Journey's End, Davros speaks about the Doctor fashioning people into weapons (with the words 'fashion people into weapons' or sth, similar to these lyrics). In the same episode, The Doctor also asks Davros to come along when he's about to escape the Dalek ship thing with the TARDIS (Davros declined the offer). I think the 'reality' thing ('If it takes till the end of reality to beat you') might also be a nod towards the whole reality bomb thing. 'locked in war', the Doctor and Davros keep meeting. They thought (Doctor, Sarah Jane) that Davros was dead, but he wasn't.
If you look at the facts, I think this is definitely about Davros/The Doctor, but I do like it as a Doctor/Master song as well.
Well, while I myself think it does fit the Doctor/Master relationship a little, I am pretty certain it is written about the Doctor and Davros (and perhaps the Daleks).
Well, while I myself think it does fit the Doctor/Master relationship a little, I am pretty certain it is written about the Doctor and Davros (and perhaps the Daleks).
In Journey's End, Davros speaks about the Doctor fashioning people into weapons (with the words 'fashion people into weapons' or sth, similar to these lyrics). In the same episode, The Doctor also asks Davros to come along when he's about to escape the Dalek ship thing with the TARDIS (Davros declined the offer). I think the 'reality' thing ('If it takes till the end of reality to beat you') might also be a nod towards the whole reality bomb thing. 'locked in war', the Doctor and Davros keep meeting. They thought (Doctor, Sarah Jane) that Davros was dead, but he wasn't.
If you look at the facts, I think this is definitely about Davros/The Doctor, but I do like it as a Doctor/Master song as well.
Yeah, I have to respectfully disagree, it's not about the Doctor and the Master, it's about the Doctor and the Daleks, or more specifically, the Doctor and Davros.
Yeah, I have to respectfully disagree, it's not about the Doctor and the Master, it's about the Doctor and the Daleks, or more specifically, the Doctor and Davros.
>
"Since I MET you back on Skaro". "Met", not "brought you to", is the key here. The Doctor met Davros in the long ago ages of myth, before the Daleks were truly the Daleks. I'm not sure who the first verse is supposed to be, but I think it's from the Doctor's perspective.
>
"Since I MET you back on Skaro". "Met", not "brought you to", is the key here. The Doctor met Davros in the long ago ages of myth, before the Daleks were truly the Daleks. I'm not sure who the first verse is supposed to be, but I think it's from the Doctor's perspective.
i>
Locked in war is actually a very interesting phrase, especially with how often the Doctor has mentioned the Time War being a "time-locked" event, separated from all else, and Davros' own death within the war.
i>
I think Chameleon Circuit knows their references well enough, and are clever enough, that they wouldn't name this "Exterminate, Regenerate" if it didn't explicitly have something to do with the Daleks. "Exterminate" is the Dalek catch-word. Beyond this, the Master has not explicitly killed the Doctor, whereas the Daleks have directly caused the death of the Doctor on at least one occasion (potentially 2, once in the Time War), as well as being a major reason for at least one other death.
i>
"We are the same" is, I would believe, sung from the Doctor's perspective. And to get this, you really need to know his philosophy. He thinks that every sentient being is, or should be, like him. Everyone is redeemable, EVEN (despite his occasional fury) the Daleks and Davros. The Doctor looks for the goodness in everything and tries to find it.
i>
Again, this is a definite comparison with the Doctor and Davros. Davros is still mostly attached to his humanoid Kaled form, not the more evolved Dalek form. And yes, the Daleks were once very man-like, in their Kaled stage.
i>
The Master rarely has companions, actually, but the "constant companion is death" statement is something that has followed the Doctor around for ages. Wherever the Doctor goes, death tends to follow. And where the Daleks go, death follows, as well. It's an apt description of both. Certainly, the Master could be included in this as well, but I think the evidence is heavily towards Daleks at this point.
i>
Elinious covered this point well already, but it's worth noting that the Master waited until the end of the universe, whereas Davros was willing to destroy all of reality to take out the Doctor, and the Daleks were inclined to go along with it. The Daleks are VERY obsessed with defeating the Doctor. Why would they not be? They have more to gain from it than the Master. For the Master, the Doctor is a challenge, someone that keeps popping up as an equal on the playing field. The Master has too great an ego to see the Doctor as a TRUE threat. For the Daleks, the Doctor has utterly destroyed their civilization at least a few times. He is known as the "Oncoming Storm". He is a warrior capable of destroying all that is Dalek, and they fear and wish to eliminate this utterly, even going to the point of teaming up with all the forces of the universe to contain him within the Pandorica.
i>
Again, Elinious mentioned this, but it bears repeating. The Doctor thinks everyone can be redeemed. Or at least contained. The suggestion that he could change the Daleks is something important to him.
i>
Met doesn't nescasarily mean the first time, I personally think it could be about Either Davros/Doctor or Master/Doctor, both of these have merit to them.
Met doesn't nescasarily mean the first time, I personally think it could be about Either Davros/Doctor or Master/Doctor, both of these have merit to them.
i can see your understanding but the doctor and master met on gallifrey for number one because they were friends a first and the master said that they would run accross his fathers estates.
i can see your understanding but the doctor and master met on gallifrey for number one because they were friends a first and the master said that they would run accross his fathers estates.