Well, from a Christian perspective, when Sufjan sings "I am really just like him," it is harking back to the foundational belief that all men are sinful and none of them are worthy in God's eyes. So even though Sufjan probably hasn't ever murdered anyone or committed any act that heinous in human terms, the state of his soul (before coming to Christ) was no better than John Wayne Gacy's.
That is one of the many reasons why Christianity makes absolutely no sense. It is ridiculous to me that people actually believe that saying "god damn it" is just as bad as kidnapping, molesting, and murdering little innocent children. If that is really the way "God" thinks, then he is really a fucking asshole and I don't see why anyone would want to worship him.
That is one of the many reasons why Christianity makes absolutely no sense. It is ridiculous to me that people actually believe that saying "god damn it" is just as bad as kidnapping, molesting, and murdering little innocent children. If that is really the way "God" thinks, then he is really a fucking asshole and I don't see why anyone would want to worship him.
stay calm dagsman, no reason for name calling. no one ever said the two things where just as 'bad' as eachother, they are merely signs of our imperfections, the same thing to a vastly different degree. if anyone one of us was hit in head with a swingset as a kid, its possible we could have been just as mental as john wayne gacy jr. thats the point, we are all hiding our imperfections and stuff like that. saying swear words in front of grandma and stealing candy from a child will never equate to murder and rape,...
stay calm dagsman, no reason for name calling. no one ever said the two things where just as 'bad' as eachother, they are merely signs of our imperfections, the same thing to a vastly different degree. if anyone one of us was hit in head with a swingset as a kid, its possible we could have been just as mental as john wayne gacy jr. thats the point, we are all hiding our imperfections and stuff like that. saying swear words in front of grandma and stealing candy from a child will never equate to murder and rape, thats stupid. however it is safe to say that you shouldn't do those things for the sake of other people feelings, in that sense they are also the same, they are wrong, something is wrong, something is under the floorboards. yknow?
well, i think a better way to explain it is that physically, the acts have a different value, and can hurt other people more or less, but it's different spiritually for the person committing them. it depends not so much on the act, but how much you know the act is wrong and how much you go against your nature to do it. in other words, if you're a person with bad upbringing, brain damage, etc; when you murder someone, it's like a Mother Theresa insulting someone.
You see, the government judges us to protect others, so the more people you...
well, i think a better way to explain it is that physically, the acts have a different value, and can hurt other people more or less, but it's different spiritually for the person committing them. it depends not so much on the act, but how much you know the act is wrong and how much you go against your nature to do it. in other words, if you're a person with bad upbringing, brain damage, etc; when you murder someone, it's like a Mother Theresa insulting someone.
You see, the government judges us to protect others, so the more people you hurt, and the more you hurt them, the more of a crime you commit.
However, God judges purely our soul. He's not an idiot, so if you had a terrible childhood, He'll hold you less accountable than someone who's been raised well. Be grateful, dagsman - I'm assuming you won't be held as accountable for calling Him a "fucking asshole" as I would be :)
Some people just can't appreciate things that are a little complex. The simplest answer to Dagsman is this:
Some people just can't appreciate things that are a little complex. The simplest answer to Dagsman is this:
Whether we are murderers or small-time crooks, we are guilty before an omnipotent and infinitely holy God.
Whether we are murderers or small-time crooks, we are guilty before an omnipotent and infinitely holy God.
I'm not a Christian (at all) but I will be the first one to declare that non-Christians are so often just plain arrogant. Christians have at least begun to understand humanity's nature and state in the universe.
I'm not a Christian (at all) but I will be the first one to declare that non-Christians are so often just plain arrogant. Christians have at least begun to understand humanity's nature and state in the universe.
Dagsman, it is in no way a matter of being "just as bad". It's a fundamental understanding for us Christians that sin is sin and no matter how much community service and good deeds that we do we are still unworthy of grace. However, we have been redeemed by Jesus Christ and we are all like John Wayne Gacy Jr. because we are all sinners, but if we really want forgiveness then God is compassionate enough to forgive us. And please, do control your tongue because calling God a "fucking asshole" is rather offensive and I can speak for others...
Dagsman, it is in no way a matter of being "just as bad". It's a fundamental understanding for us Christians that sin is sin and no matter how much community service and good deeds that we do we are still unworthy of grace. However, we have been redeemed by Jesus Christ and we are all like John Wayne Gacy Jr. because we are all sinners, but if we really want forgiveness then God is compassionate enough to forgive us. And please, do control your tongue because calling God a "fucking asshole" is rather offensive and I can speak for others when I say that's just not necessary nor true.
Well, from a Christian perspective, when Sufjan sings "I am really just like him," it is harking back to the foundational belief that all men are sinful and none of them are worthy in God's eyes. So even though Sufjan probably hasn't ever murdered anyone or committed any act that heinous in human terms, the state of his soul (before coming to Christ) was no better than John Wayne Gacy's.
you dont know that he hasnt murdered anyone. dont be ignorant.
you dont know that he hasnt murdered anyone. dont be ignorant.
That is one of the many reasons why Christianity makes absolutely no sense. It is ridiculous to me that people actually believe that saying "god damn it" is just as bad as kidnapping, molesting, and murdering little innocent children. If that is really the way "God" thinks, then he is really a fucking asshole and I don't see why anyone would want to worship him.
That is one of the many reasons why Christianity makes absolutely no sense. It is ridiculous to me that people actually believe that saying "god damn it" is just as bad as kidnapping, molesting, and murdering little innocent children. If that is really the way "God" thinks, then he is really a fucking asshole and I don't see why anyone would want to worship him.
I couldn't aggree with you more, dagsman.
I couldn't aggree with you more, dagsman.
stay calm dagsman, no reason for name calling. no one ever said the two things where just as 'bad' as eachother, they are merely signs of our imperfections, the same thing to a vastly different degree. if anyone one of us was hit in head with a swingset as a kid, its possible we could have been just as mental as john wayne gacy jr. thats the point, we are all hiding our imperfections and stuff like that. saying swear words in front of grandma and stealing candy from a child will never equate to murder and rape,...
stay calm dagsman, no reason for name calling. no one ever said the two things where just as 'bad' as eachother, they are merely signs of our imperfections, the same thing to a vastly different degree. if anyone one of us was hit in head with a swingset as a kid, its possible we could have been just as mental as john wayne gacy jr. thats the point, we are all hiding our imperfections and stuff like that. saying swear words in front of grandma and stealing candy from a child will never equate to murder and rape, thats stupid. however it is safe to say that you shouldn't do those things for the sake of other people feelings, in that sense they are also the same, they are wrong, something is wrong, something is under the floorboards. yknow?
well, i think a better way to explain it is that physically, the acts have a different value, and can hurt other people more or less, but it's different spiritually for the person committing them. it depends not so much on the act, but how much you know the act is wrong and how much you go against your nature to do it. in other words, if you're a person with bad upbringing, brain damage, etc; when you murder someone, it's like a Mother Theresa insulting someone. You see, the government judges us to protect others, so the more people you...
well, i think a better way to explain it is that physically, the acts have a different value, and can hurt other people more or less, but it's different spiritually for the person committing them. it depends not so much on the act, but how much you know the act is wrong and how much you go against your nature to do it. in other words, if you're a person with bad upbringing, brain damage, etc; when you murder someone, it's like a Mother Theresa insulting someone. You see, the government judges us to protect others, so the more people you hurt, and the more you hurt them, the more of a crime you commit. However, God judges purely our soul. He's not an idiot, so if you had a terrible childhood, He'll hold you less accountable than someone who's been raised well. Be grateful, dagsman - I'm assuming you won't be held as accountable for calling Him a "fucking asshole" as I would be :)
total depravity doesn't mean that your are as bad as you can be it just means in every way you are sinful.
total depravity doesn't mean that your are as bad as you can be it just means in every way you are sinful.
total depravity doesn't mean that your are as bad as you can be it just means in every way you are sinful.
total depravity doesn't mean that your are as bad as you can be it just means in every way you are sinful.
Some people just can't appreciate things that are a little complex. The simplest answer to Dagsman is this:
Some people just can't appreciate things that are a little complex. The simplest answer to Dagsman is this:
Whether we are murderers or small-time crooks, we are guilty before an omnipotent and infinitely holy God.
Whether we are murderers or small-time crooks, we are guilty before an omnipotent and infinitely holy God.
I'm not a Christian (at all) but I will be the first one to declare that non-Christians are so often just plain arrogant. Christians have at least begun to understand humanity's nature and state in the universe.
I'm not a Christian (at all) but I will be the first one to declare that non-Christians are so often just plain arrogant. Christians have at least begun to understand humanity's nature and state in the universe.
Dagsman, it is in no way a matter of being "just as bad". It's a fundamental understanding for us Christians that sin is sin and no matter how much community service and good deeds that we do we are still unworthy of grace. However, we have been redeemed by Jesus Christ and we are all like John Wayne Gacy Jr. because we are all sinners, but if we really want forgiveness then God is compassionate enough to forgive us. And please, do control your tongue because calling God a "fucking asshole" is rather offensive and I can speak for others...
Dagsman, it is in no way a matter of being "just as bad". It's a fundamental understanding for us Christians that sin is sin and no matter how much community service and good deeds that we do we are still unworthy of grace. However, we have been redeemed by Jesus Christ and we are all like John Wayne Gacy Jr. because we are all sinners, but if we really want forgiveness then God is compassionate enough to forgive us. And please, do control your tongue because calling God a "fucking asshole" is rather offensive and I can speak for others when I say that's just not necessary nor true.