this song is just one of those songs that makes u break down and forget everything else just to listen to the lyricss. i cry every time i hear it and even when i think about it. also because my best friend can relate to this song and it makes me soooo sad when i think about going through something like this. it touches my heart and i've never heard such a beautiful song.

All the glory...
Stevens is trying to follow the biblical concept "consider it joy." It is a hard thing to do, and he says so. He isn't mad at God, or he wouldn't say "oh the glory when He took our place," referring to Christ's sacrafice for mankind. But just because he isn't mad at God, doesn't mean he understands what God is doing, which is totally acceptable. As someone who has suffered loss in such a manner, I agree with Sufjan.

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the day i heard this...i was on the way to see a friend.the ex girlfriend of onf my closest dearest female friends. she had just died of a heroin overdose. i had also just found out my mum's cancer had returned. what a few weeks..months it was/has been.... sufjan's music has been a great comfort because of his faith and his honesty.. he doesnt pretend to know the answers. music to him is not a message but a sharing from the soul...so y a thast why his 'christian' music is special... oh and by teh way God did answer our prayers and my mum's cancer is gone..she is healed...

I would say that this song IS definitely about being mad at God... in fact it is as overtly about being mad at God as "For the Widows in Paradise" is about how Jesus is great. Look at the lyrics: "...we pray over your body but nothing ever happens" "and he takes and he takes and he takes" and "...All the glory" which is meant to be ironic--christians are all the time saying that when something good happens, never when something horrible happens, despite the fact that both are implicitly His work (for proof, see the post above mine). Sufjan is putting the thought back into Christian music... well, I guess it was never really there to begin with, so rather he's putting thought into Christian music, by pointing out both that God is amazing sometimes, but that most of the time he seems like he doesn't care. The Christians who "claim" Sufjan for some reason always gloss over this, want to make him into Scott Stapp. But it is incontrovertably there.

"I would say that this song IS definitely about being mad at God" - jady

well said, although i would probably myself want to suggest something more along the lines of "confusion" and/or "frustration." perhaps that is a mere semantical point... what i am most struck by is the HONESTY stevens uses in his music. truly - he is willing to express BOTH the joy and the despair that are regular parts of our lives. i think it is a form of defensiveness and denial when people are not willing to acknowledge their fear, disappointment, rage, jealously, etc... unfortunately, many have been made to feel that the only emotions welcome in a religous enviornment are joy and happiness. how discouraging this must be (and is) when much of our experience is much less pleasant than such affectivity would imply.

"and he takes, and he takes, and he takes." a wise person told me once that true worship can only happen when we are willing to be honest with God - be that a moment of thankful praise - or one of darkness and doubt.

"I would say that this song is definitely about being mad at God" - jady

well said, although i would probably myself want to suggest something more along the lines of "confusion" and/or "frustration." perhaps that is a mere semantical point, though... what i am most struck by is the HONESTY stevens uses in his music. truly - he is willing to express BOTH the joy and the despair that are regular parts of our lives. i think it is a form of defensiveness and denial when people are not willing to acknowledge their fear, disappointment, rage, jealously, etc... unfortunately, many have been made to feel that the only emotions welcome in a religous enviornment are joy and happiness. how discouraging this must be (and is) when much of our experience is in reality a great deal less pleasant than such affectivity would imply.

"and he takes, and he takes, and he takes." a wise person told me once that true worship can only happen when we are willing to be honest with God - be that a moment of thankful praise - or one of darkness and doubt.

I really like the comment made by Breakfast, that was really really good. I also liked the comment about how honest sufjan was, very true.

In regards to this take of christianity- I think it means what it means to you. If you think he was mad at God, then think that. I personally think that he was praising God and sort of asking for strength. The "all the glory that the lord has made" is truly beautiful.

I can't even speak the "In the morning when you finally go... cardinal hits the window" part without choking up. The vocals and the trumpet and absolutely necessary and PERFECT!

amazing.

it's about the paradox of faith existing in reality. he is not angry with god, he's trying to understand god. hes trying to understand why it is that he loves something that doesn't give him anything tangible, took her away, the different things that God takes and takes and takes. why that is important.

its present in almost every song. its why i love sufjan

This song is obviously about losing someone to cancer, and being mad at God. I personally have suffered this. I can hear this through in the song. It's not about a man, however. He is not gay, as much as you'd all like to think so. Hell, even I'd want to think that, since even my girlfriend is in love with him! damn him! such a good songwriter.
In any case: it is progressive and linear. It is a recollection of memories. THink about it the way I hear it
1) young girl, she gets cancer
2) Sarcoma (bone cancer) is almost uncurable, so she has final months of living, in great pain.
3) They pray to god (healing prayers versus modern medicine) but of course, that's not going to help...
4) he is in love with her, kisses her, maybe even she loses her virginity to her (I would guess with such a strict christian family/values/community she is a virgin still?) she also tells him she's scared. In the last months of their lives, before they accept it, patients with cancer do find themselves very scared. It's not an easy thing to know you'll die and that there's almost a set date for your death... this is heart wrenching
5) father finds out...about her losing her virginity or even something more innocent like sleeping together in a bed with the narrator, maybe does something that makes her unhappy (separates them) or blames her for the "curse" she has or something like this
6) she dies...her father kills himself being sorry at making her miserable in her last days. I would if I was him. Bastard.

What makes you say her father kills himself?
I definitely interpretated this as a wistful confusion at life and God rather than anger.

As said before, Casimir Pulaski Day is a holiday on March 1st in Illinois.

I take this song as praising God for blessing him with something so great-the "girl", yet being frusterated and angry with him for taking all that away.


One thing I'm not sure about is this line-
"In the morning when you finally go,
and the nurse runs in with her head hung low,
and the cardinal hits the window."

The cardinal hitting the window I have always taken as running into something unexpected. Yet this song is about spending time the the girl before her death, which is "expected [for lack of better word] soon. So it wouldn't be unexpected. What is unexpected then?


As often as I put this song on repeat and listen to it over and over again, it never fails to awe me with its beauty and make me cry.

Fabulous song. The tercets, in my mind, make it easier to understand--here's my attempt at a (loose) translation:

1. Goldenrod is a flower that blooms in the late summer or fall. 4H is a national organization for kids that concentrates on building character and community values. Its symbol is, interestingly enough, a four-leaf clover.

--These three lines could mean two things. One, that it is the autumn of his friend's life--hence the goldenrod. Two, the image of lucky clover could be a futile attempt by a young man to draw his friend back to childhood and happier times. We all remember being kids and believing that something was lucky, that it could change things. "Cancer of the bone" is pretty self-explanatory.

2. In times of war, a navy yard is a safe place for ships that are broken/damaged to be rebuilt.

--The father, who has been a refuge for his child in the past, is so upset that he seeks his own shelter from the "storm" (his daughter's illness). He has been the refuge for his daughter in the past; now he seeks his own refuge.

3. I don't think there may be any deeper symbolism in this passage. Just a lovely image and a fond memory.

4. I think that this, section, like most of the religious symbolism in this song, is bittersweet. The Lord has made many glorious things, he says, but He has also created complications. Complications that are compounded by the singer and the subject's kiss.

5. Also very bittersweet. This reminded me of the 4H reference - random, I know, but work with me. Prayer, the singer concludes, is useless not just once but multiple times. It's almost childlike, the singer seems to think, to be praying when nothing ever happens. But they keep doing it.

6. This seems to be a very simple gesture that escalates, intentionally or not. The sick friend kisses him, and he brushes against her blouse.

--Interesting note: in some Christian theology, St. Michael is regarded as a saint of healing who comforts the sick.

7. Unlike some posters, I DON'T believe that this is about being scared of the father. The father, as previous established, is struck with grief. Rather, the singer and his friend have done something--kissed, maybe more--and she opens up to him about how truly scared she is of her illness.

8. This imagery, for me, is a lovely study in contrasts. On the one hand, she remembers to tuck in her shirt--which demonstrates a need to be orderly. On the other hand, she doesn't bother to tie her shoes. Perhaps, by now, she is starting to break down--she's scared, after all. Nothing's consistent in her life, not even her clothing. And the defiant last line demonstrates that she's not just scared of her illness; she is also angry about it, and wants to beat it but seems to know she can't. She wants to get away from it all, just for a little bit.

9. The unspecific pronoun here is a pain, but I've an idea. By "it", I assumed the singer means some sort of goodbye message that he finds while cleaning out. Cleaning, by the way, is a metaphor for moving on: a new beginning. The message of the card is, for me, demonstrated in the previous tercet: the "not to follow" line. She's telling him not to follow her; she wants him to live. The mother imagery might be a request to take care of her -- I'm not entirely sure.

10. "The Great Divide" isn't a physical division for me--it's a spiritual one, of one cycle of life to another. He is at a point where he knows what's going to happen to his friend, but he can't move on, not yet. His conflict is demonstrated by the fact that his shirt is tucked in, but his shoes are untied-- like his friend. However, unlike her, he can't be defiant, he can't stay strong.

11. The defining line for me here is the cardinal imagery. I think it is an image-- of his friend. The window is her illness--she could see the other side (her life without the illness), see where she was going in life. But she was stopped by an invisible force. The first two lines of this verse are heart wrenching.

12. A reference to the holiday. Casimir Pulaski, by the way, was a Revolutionary war general. During a battle, he rode ahead bravely and rallied his men, and received a mortal blow as a result.

--It's said that, with the shock of death, people often remember or notice seemingly unimportant things. I think, as he friend lies there, he is wishing--almost fooling himself--that she is breathing. But he also is reminded, at that moment, that it is Casimir Pulaski Day. I think that he might see some of Casimir Pulaski in his friend: she was brave, and although it did not help her, it inspired him.

13. He is angry at God here, in my opinion. God, he thinks, has made all these wonderful things, but He couldn't save his friend. The singer is now confused about his relationship with God and religion. How can he look at God after this has happened?

14. For me, the most painful verse. God is glorious sometimes, but other times He doesn't make sense. The second line of this section gave me a good image of shaking a shocked friend--trying to get him to tune into reality. But, the singer says, that won't work on him. God tries to bring him back to consciousness, but all he sees is God taking his friend.

That was long; apologies. I'd love to know other people's thoughts.

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anyone wondering what the 4-H references mean, 4-H is an orginization, mostly for adolescents, where they learn about agriculture, science, anything they choose really. 4-H is huge here in illinois, at least in the agricultural communities where 4-H is sort of a "learn how to farm" program for many, although there are many urban programs too. Kids create projects every year, and the best ones get awards and get to go to the state fair to compete with projects from around the state.

I'm assuming the 4-H stone is some sort of award this person won.

maybe you should adopt this as a profession. teach history of rock and roll: conjecture junction what's your function.

pomaceous, your description is perfect. everything i was thinking or was confused about this song, you wrote it out. thank you.

I was struck by the end of the song, after the lyrics have ended, and he continues playing... The way it crescendos makes me think that Sufjan has created an homage to brightness in the girl's life (or her positive impact on him, perhaps). It feels like he is filling the sadness of the ending with a swelling of honest grieving. The elegiac movement also allows us to feel some closure, which is a highly positive thing.

I guess this is obvious, but I think that the immediacy of the lyrics and the vividness of his minute descriptions imply that this song's goal was to create a living memory and to make the feeling the most important element of the story. As most creative writers can tell you, it is VERY difficult to honestly communicate emotion (especially when taking an audience into account), and I am constantly impressed by Sufjan's transparency!

the thing that the father found out , they made out thats about it.

i love that sufjan can make his music so religious, yet not have it only be happy. in so many of his songs he seems to get frustrated with god, and it's so so nice to hear that aggrevation. no one else seems to write about that. the music is just wonderful, as well.

This is the closest a song has ever brought me to teers luckily i can't relate to it

Beautiful song I agree.

But why does everyone assume it's about Sufjan?
All the songs off this album are about Illinois and one can only assume he was inspired by places and events and of course people in the state. He himself grew up in Michigan.

Many here seem to assume that Sufjan can't both be angry at God and still be faithful, even willing to praise God even while asking hard questions through bitter tears. A look at the complaints of Job or the Psalmists would reveal that even in the Bible, God's faithful often wrestled with his apparent silence and inaction, sometimes to the brink of despair. The dark nights of the soul are, too, part of a living, dynamic relationship with God.

The strength of the song is in the small details--the 4H stone, the shirt tucked in and the shoes untied, _almost_ touching the blouse...every time I hear this and similar songs, I keep thinking how much Sufjan absorbed those MFA writing lessons. This was pretty much the sort of thing that I was taught to follow in my creative writing courses, that meaning and power in literature come from concrete detail. If fellow MFA Colin Meloy follows one tack--fanciful, dramatic storytelling--Sufjan does it the more contemporary, "literary fiction" method: close, intimate observation building to a slow, poignant climax. And he does it without being boring!

I know of no contemporary Christian song that captures grief so perfectly, in specifically Christian terms, and still remain so (Biblically, Job-like) honest. (It makes the contemporary worship song "Job's Song" seem like the travesty it is.) As I said in my post for "John Wayne Gacy, Jr.": more artists like Sufjan, please. Songs like this give me hope for the future of Christian expression.

This may explain the cardinal against the window:

http://www.snopes.com/oldwives/bird.asp

Sufjan and the narrator of the song are too seperate entities and statements such as, 'He is not gay, as much as you'd all like to think' really don't have any relevance to the song. Like someone said up there you have to place the song in the context of the album and the concept of the album rather than relate it to Sufjan himself.

I think this song is about a girl who got lukemia ("cancer of the bone") and then died who sufjan was very close to her, and how he was kind of mad at God for taking her from him but knows that is just how God is.

there is a cardinal that always hits my window every single morning and at night just continuously hit the window over and over again.
i laugh when i hear this because i made a movie about how the meaning of life and used footage of the cardinal. we being the cardinal. challenges are the window and the house is the goal.
i really love this song.
plus going to christian school, all the verses and other things that he points to is easliy recogognized by me
especially the "and he takes and he take and he takes" line.
almost of the exact same verse i hade to memorize two years ago.