Neil Peart is God. Well not really when you listen to this song but he is still great anyway.

I know someone probably posted this already but I noticed that many people were talking about the atheist themes to this song but in fact Neil Peart is agnostic which in my eyes is really the only form of religous beliefs that can actually be proven correct. What this song is about is that there are so many rules and beliefs in all these religons that there really is not a clear path. So Neil is just saying that I won't get mixed in with all this mess but I do believe in freewill.

It's an atheists's song.

Rush probably has no idea how many lives they have impacted. They wrote in an hour what I've been thinking about for the past twenty years.

what is lotusland?

Neil Peart: "Lotus-land as it appears in 'Free Will' is simply a metaphor for an idealized background, a 'land of milk and honey.' It is sometimes also used as a pejorative name for Los Angeles, though that was not in my mind when I wrote it."

from songfacts.com

Yeah, I think that it is "kindness that can cure" and not "kill"

You folks are missing the point. The lyrics are about free will vs. destiny.

The first line spells it out: "There are those who think that life is nothing left to chance". Life is nothing left to chance means that whatever happens to you is destiny. You have little or no control over the outcome.

The second stanza starts with "You can choose" and ends with "I will choose free will". In other words, you make your own decisions and your life is not pre determined. In other words, you make your own choices.

You can be Christian, atheist, etc. Free will vs. destiny is a separate argument.

Were you given you current path from day one? Do you have little influence on your inevitable outcome(destiny).

Do you make your own decisions and choose to follow or not follow a given path (free will)?

Even if you believe in a higher power you can believe that you have the choice to follow the directions given. Do you choose to follow God's commandments for example (free will)...

I never really took this as an anthem for athiests. If anything, it's about agnosticism.

"If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choioce"

To me, that line is about a choice concerning the existence of a higher power (or any metaphysical problem, really). The song's about refusing to make conclusions without any backing. All we have is our own perception to bank off of, so follow it truly as you can.

A few comments about the comments:

"If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice." You chose not to decide; that was a choice. Years before this song was written, one of my teachers said, "Choosing not to decide is deciding not to choose." SSDD.


Foggs -
I think that it is "kindness that can cure" and not "kill"

It's "kill." It rhymes with free "will."


johnpauljones86 -
Basically in the song Freewill means atheism. Well that's what I got out of it.
addseale2 -
It's an atheists's song.

As john_does mentioned (below), Free Will vs. Determinism is a debate separate from the debates about various religions, including atheism (more below).

john_does -
You can be Christian, atheist, etc. Free will vs. destiny is a separate argument.
Even if you believe in a higher power you can believe that you have the choice to follow the directions given. Do you choose to follow God's commandments for example (free will)...

The Rat -
'Belief' in a god ... is without any direct evidence, no compelling inferred evidence (at least to me), and therefore is based entirely on faith.
ArtRockFan -
[Agnosticism is] the only form of religous beliefs that can actually be proven correct.
goldsac -
The song's about refusing to make conclusions without any backing.

As I understand agnosticism, it's the argument (the fact, according to ArtRockFan) that humans are incapable of proving or disproving the existence of God; therefor, all religions are based on faith / belief rather than fact.
That's not to say that fact is necessarily better than faith. For example, Newtonian physics were taken as fact for centuries, and they are correct in everyday life; Einstein showed that we need more than just Newtonian physics to explain atoms, etc.
Another example: each day we wake up and believe that life will be much as it was the day before; on 9/11/2001, that belief vanished.
BTW, I said that atheism - the belief that God does not exist - is a religion because we can't prove or DISPROVE God's existence.
Agnosticism takes no position on religion; it simply states that we can't prove what is believed (at least up to this point in human history).


tobintax -
[T]he universe is ... a collection of atoms and molecules which strictly conform to the physical laws of the universe. In turn, this means that we are made up of the same thing, so the atoms and molecules of our beings must conform to those same laws as well - over which we of course have no control. In this view then, free will disappears.

I agree that we're made up of atoms, etc. and that they must conform to the laws of physics (as we understand them today). On the other hand, choosing between eggs and cereal for breakfast has nothing to do with physics; choosing to believe in God also has nothing to do with physics. I'm not trying to end the Free Will vs. Determinism argument here; I'm saying that your argument seems flawed.


2112Rush2112 -
And all three instruments just go absolutely nuts in the solo, and it sounds perfect. Nothing out of place; fits together great. How do they do it?

Practice, practice, practice! Plus talent.

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i'd like to say that this is a really interesting discussion. also, im advocating the prospect, like the Nobs that God does give us freewill. i am religious but even i struggle with this issue.

GREATEST SONG EVER!!!!

Yeah, people took this way out of context. It's basically that there are people who do not believe they have ANY control over their destiny.

Through personal observation I've noticed that people who do not believe in locus of control, that is, and control over their fate, as well as religious people, are those who are more often immoral. This isn't my knock on religion, but it seems easy for people to take refuge in a concept that they are out of control.

That said, this song does knock religion at least a little. "A planet of playthings, we dance on the strings of powers we cannot conceive" kinda gives that away.

Still, basically regardless of one's religious affinity, this song preaches locus of control, that people are in control of their destiny, and actions.

On a final conclusion, I don't care what anyone chooses to believe, but as a psychology major, validated studies have shown that people with strong locus of control, tend to be much healthier, both physically, and mentally. Food for thought; awesome song.

Yeah, people took this way out of context. It's basically that there are people who do not believe they have ANY control over their destiny.

Through personal observation I've noticed that people who do not believe in locus of control, that is, and control over their fate, as well as religious people, are those who are more often immoral. This isn't my knock on religion, but it seems easy for people to take refuge in a concept that they are out of control.

That said, this song does knock religion at least a little. "A planet of playthings, we dance on the strings of powers we cannot conceive" kinda gives that away.

Still, basically regardless of one's religious affinity, this song preaches locus of control, that people are in control of their destiny, and actions.

On a final conclusion, I don't care what anyone chooses to believe, but as a psychology major, validated studies have shown that people with strong locus of control, tend to be much healthier, both physically, and mentally. Food for thought; awesome song.

Lotus-land is the belief that you were born to a certain lifestyle. Kind of like on a Manor; if you were born a peasant, you will stay a peasant for your whole life.

What Neil is saying is that you don't have to be what you're born into. Basically he says that at one point in your life, you must choose whether to believe in what people tell you. I always thought it would be a religion you were born into that your parents told you to believe in.


Neil isn't atheist by the way, he's agnostic.

Obviously the lyrics must say "still HAVE made a choice" because the choice between believeing and not believing is the freewill that we have. it all boiles down to the choices we make and what you have faith in, if you have any faith at all. Thats the beauty of freewill. You are not forced to believe anything.

This song is a reference to determinism and whoever posted these lyrics needs some liner notes or a better system! The Line Is ... if you choose not to decide you still HAVE MADE A CHOICE! Think about it! It's extremely existential but so true! An unwillingness or inability to make a decision ultimately makes a choice. Curious if anyone has noticed a link between the references in this song and some literary works such as Notes from the Underground, by Doestievsky or Byron's Manfred?

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I completely agree with "johnpauljones86" in his "09-17-2004 07:31:57 PM" post that Freewill equates to atheism in this song.

I always giggle at those who ponder the questions of "A. Free will" and "B. Predestination". More often than not they miss the multiple choice nature of the solution which is "C. Both A and B".

Consider the parent who says, "You can wear your red shirt or your blue shirt. Which do you want to wear?" By way of predestination going shirtless is not an option. By way of free will, the child is able to wear either shirt s/he chooses. Will a child wear a shirt? Yes. Which shirt will the child choose? By way of her/his own free will, the parent has deliberately chosen not to intervene because s/he wants the child to learn how to think on her/his own.

Apply to God and man.

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The lyric: If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice

Is really about agnostic beliefs. Some will say that they are spiritual that they believe in a creator, but don't adhere to one religion. They are chosing not to believe and yet they are making a choice.

Aethiesm is the only belief system where free will is the only guide. I myself am Agnostic.

Although I do agree with grandslam7 and mojoh25’s description of the “you still have made a choice” phrase, they seem to have missed the perspective of the song.

Actually, if you look at the context of the song, I believe that “you still haven’t made a choice” is much more fitting and clever than “you still have made a choice”.

When you look at it, the lyrics all come from the perspective of describing the determinist. In the line above it he says, “You (the determinist) can choose a ready guide in some celestial voice”. Then followed by, “If you (the determinist) choose not to decide, you (the determinist) still haven’t made a choice”, meaning that your “choice” was predetermined, or that you had no “choice” in making your “choice to not choose”.

When the two lines are combined into a single thought it states that; whether or not you decide on some sort of heavenly guide, your choice was predetermined. This illustrates the perspective of the determinist, and fits with the fundamentals of the song. If the lyric were “still have made a choice” it would not fit appropriately with the rest of the song.

This is why I think that the lyrics as originally printed, “If you choose not to decide, you still haven't made a choice”, with the album are correct and much more meaningful in the context of the song.


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There is an endless analogys to this song.. though the main point is about life in general